Opinions from Others.
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The Editor invites correspondence on all subjects connected with the use oj commercial motors. Letters should be on one side of the paper only, and tyi,e-written by preference. The right qf abbreviation is reserved, and no responsibility for the views expressed is accepted.
"Grip" and "Band' Tires: Which is the Better?
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL Mortis."
[8531 Sir :—I have read with interest your article by " Hoincic " on running costs of commercial motors, and was much surprised at his ignorance on the subject of tires. So glaring are the mistakes, and the statistics so far from facts, that I feel sure they will be misleading to many users. In the first instance, your contributor talks of " grip section " tires as made of " spited " rubber, and of " band section " as of ' high-grade rubber, moulded "; evidently, it is intended to insinuate that the grip-section tire is not made, of high-grade rubber. I would point out to those who are interested that this is not the case, and that gripsection and band-section tires are both spited and moulded, and that both are of high-grade rubber. The creeping of a grip-section tire is neither the fault of the rubber nor of the grip, but entirely due to carelessness in driving, such as braking the car suddenly, or letting in the clutch too quickly ; these actions, which start creeping in this Class of tire, will have equally disastrous effects on a band-section one, but show themselves by rasping of the rubber, and small pieces being torn out through the excessive strain put on the small part of the tire which is in contact with the road when the brake or clutch is applied or let in hurriedly. It is quite a fallacy to suppose that the band section will be usable until it wears down to the iron rim; myexperience goes to prove the reverse, for, as soon as the soft rubber has worn away, you come upon a portion which is almost as hard as vulcanite, and this chips off like wood, making it necessary to have new rubbers.
As to ratio of price, there is something far wrong. I hare fitted many grip-section tires and have never paid the sum of
• a set, nor have I ever got mileage of such ridiculous
average. as 5,otio. I changed the twin tires of a two-ton van grip section three months ago, after having run over 28,000 miles, running over two years, and the front wheels are still running after 33,000; the car is almost always carrying full load. I may mention that, out of six vans, all now with grip section, the last six tires renewed show an average mileage per tire of 18,333 miles. The worst mileage I ever got with a grip section, bar accidents, was 7,000 miles, and the best with a band section 6,000.
Taking the price of a set of sin. grip section of a standard maker, it will be ,4.5o, and the same in band section will be
£ 114; these prices are taken from the lists of the two firms who are recognised as the best makers in their respective classes. Taking " Homoe's " mileage, the grip section will turn out at 2.4d. per mile, and the other at 2.28d., a differ
ence in favour of band section of o.12d. Now, if the mileage of the grip section be put at 7,000, which is the lowest nolcag-c I ever got and less than half the average, and that mileage accepted, which I think will be accepted as mare correct than your contributor's, the cost will be 1.71d. per mile, or a difference in favour of grip section of o.57d.
As to time lost through changing the grip tire, I have driven a van to the tire depot for a renewal, and the time taken from the start of removing the wheel until the car was ready for the road was exactly 47 minutes. A gripsection tire, when it has come out of the rim, is not necessarily ruined, and at present I have a front wheel fitted with two pieces off two different tires, which 1 was going to sell for scrap before I was advised to give them a trial by the maker : the wheel has now been running since last July, and is still on the road. " lIomoc " also forgets that, with the usual band section, the twin tires are generally cast in one, and this, if the inner or outer becomes damaged, necessitates two new ones, whilst the grip section can be replaced separately. As you have given publicity to such erroneous statements, trust you will find room for this correction.—Yours, etc.,
Maroc INN. Eamont, Dowanhill, Glasgow.
(Experiences clearly vary•greatly ; our Polunins are opt ii for the full dis cussion of this important subject. It really possesses Jar greater interest for users than does the question of fuel cost.—En.] Concerning Niotorcabs.
The Editor, 44 THE COMNIERCIAL MOTOR."
[854] Sir :—I am glad to note that the experience of Messrs. Dennis Brothers coincides with my own; they have been in the business for some years, and their opinion should carry conviction.
Now, Mr. Sturmey, when I selected the figures "four " and " four-and-a-half " inches to illustrate your " half-inch difference " theory, I did so because the difference in the areas of two such circles, and, consequently, the maximum explosion pressure, and the maximum stress in the materials. is approximately 25 per cent. If it pleases you better, I will take three-and-a-half inches as the cylinder diameter, and make the addition to that dimension, thus bringing the size up to four inches; the difference in the stress is then 30 per cent. You see, therefore, that in taking exception to my example you are only supporting my contention.
I do not agree with Mr. S. 'S suggestion that motorcabs should be heavier. Design them with a view to the avoidance of so much gear changing, and let every part of the chassis be made of the most suitable material, and I am convinced that there will be no need to increase the running costs by making the initial load any heavier than is now the case on many of the cabs on the London streets.
Why should I be asked to accept as conclusive an account of an unofficial and -unobserved trial or tour through the Provinces on a two-cylinder car ?
There is sound reasoning in Mr. Edge's letter. He makes out a good case for either the two-cylinder or for the four-cylinder machine, and quite rightly denounces the high-speed running of commercial vehicles, especially of the cab type, but he also, I am afraid, does not fully appreciate the need for faster and more powerful machines for the Provinces.
The arrangement suggested by" Engineer " is not new. Although with such a crank setting the torque is more even, the balance is, if anything, worse than the 180 degrees setting.
" Makers of Both " appear to be highly amused over my statement regarding the relative cost of two-throw and fourthrow crankshafts, and think it is inconsistent with my previous letters. Nothing of the kind. 1 have never attempted to show that a four-cylinder engine can be made at a lower cost than one having two cylinders, but to show that, under certain conditions, the four-cylinder engine will cause less wear and tear throughout the transmission system than would be the case were a two-cylinder engine of the same power employed. So far, no sound argument to disprove that statement has been offered.
Perhaps more information will be forthcoming if you invite some more motorvan builders to air their views on the subject, as Mr. Dennis has .done, from other standpoints than cab use.-Yours faithfully, GEOFFRY ‘VALLACE. Richmond, 25th January, 1909,
The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
1.8551 Sir :—I am very pleased to note that my views have the powerful support of so recognised an authority as Mr. S. F. Edge. He puts very clearly the commercial aspect of the case and the importance, nay, the necessity, of considering these. 1 am also with him in saying that three cylinders would give better results than two, and, as I have had a very considerable experience with three-cylinder engines, I may add that they will give quite as good and even better results than many " fours," but popular prejudice in motorcar circles is so strong against them, that I doubt if it would pay a manufacturer to attempt to re-introduce them. Of course, by setting two cylinders at an angle of go degrees, or, better still, opposing them directly and setting them horizontally, very much smoother and steadier running can he obtained, and, with the latter model, the balance is equal to any four-cylinder ever produced, whilst, with either double-opposed or " V " engines, a " two-cylinder" developing up to zoh.p. on the brake is quite a com
fortable and desirable model. In this I speak from a lengthy experience with such types.
" Kent Correspondent " is wrong in assuming that my observations are based principally on London running conditions. I have had provincial use even more in mind than London, and, even in such districts as those he mentions, 1 still hold that a two-cylinder cab of sufficient power and suitably geared will entirely meet the bill of the cab owner. Two-cylinder cabs have, it is true, not been a success in the districts named, but this is not because they had twincylinders only, but because those cylinders were not quite big enough, and because the transmission was geared too
highly. Your correspondent is in error in pointing to Brooklands, as racing performances have no bearing whatever on commercial work, and-the sole reason why the twocylinder engine has not figured prominently there has been because no manufacturer has been interested enough to fake up an engine to put in " stunt " performances, whereas the single-cylinder men have been building special freaks to give high-speed results, which are not wanted in cabs or commercial vehicles.
The sooner we relegate to the limbo of the past, in commercial work, the fads, fancies and prejudices of the pleasure-car side of the business, the better it will be for all of us, both manufacturers and users.—Yours faithfully, Coventry. HENRY ST'URMRY.
The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR," [8561 Sir :—In order to extend still further the use of taxi-cabs, and as a suggestion to increase their popularity, there are one or two points I think will assist this end : I. There should be cheaper fares than at present for single-cylinder cabs and possibly those with two cylinders; the present fares should apply only to vehicles with four or more cylinders.
2, That each type of vehicle should be clearly indicated by a large figure, in front of the bonnet, showing the number of cylinders.
3. That every taxicab should be painted the same colour—I believe Post-Office red would be the best.
4. That each separate company should be marked with some clear distinguishing mark, so that the cabs • 1 of the different companies could be identified by would • be fares; for example, most Napier taxicabs have the Union Jack on the door panel. I think these are all points that will stand consideration and criticism, and I trust that some of your readers will give their opinions on the suggestion.—Yours truly, S. F. EDGE.
New Burlington Street, W.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[857] Sir :—Whilst we have been keenly interested in the correspondence now appearing in your columns respecting the number of cylinders per cab likely to yield the best results to proprietors, perhaps none of the letters have given us greater pleasure to read than that in the current issue by Mr. S. F. Edge. Here is an expert forced to the conclusion, that the single-cylinder cab having a maximum Speed of zo miles per hour will eventually be the moneyrnalcin,g type. It will, no doubt, interest your readers to know that, after exhaustive experiment extending over a period of five years, we have designed and are now engaged upon the manufacture of a single-cylinder cab having a maximum speed of 24 miles per hour. We have a drive which is as flexible as steam, and can change speed as easily as one would ring an electric push-bell, whilst our system of transmission is so simple as to be understood by any man in the street. Our mechanism will stand the hardest of wear, and is fool-proof, and not the least distinctive feature is the introduction of a radiator that is equally suitable for the hottest or coldest day in the year, permitting the driver to regulate • the heat of the engine to the desired temperature. We have other novel features, all tending towards simplicity and efficiency, about which, for the present, we prefer to be silent. We were desirous of showing this cab at Olympia, in March, but, as the show has been abandoned, we hope to have a united Press review some time during that month.—Yours faithfully, Birmingham, 23rd January. " GEAHLsss,"
Special Trains to London or the Sales: Suggested Retaliation.
The Editor, " THE Commtneou, MOTOR."
p558] Sir :—With reference to the letter from a Tunbridge Wells correspondent, and in fairness to the railway companies, these special cheap trains to London were only provided after continual requests from the local public. Furthermore, such trains are run from other places considerably nearer London, and, in the case of Tunbridge Wells, they are probably more largely used for the purpose of visiting the theatres and pantomimes. The " unfair competition " really conies from the " London Grabalis " themselves, who are adopting improved road delivery methods enabling them to serve customers promptly and more regularly even in the case of those residing well outside the London area. The traders can best combat the London stores by adopting better delioery methods.—Yours faithfully, S. F. Bromley.
Motorbus Competition in London.
The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[859] Sir :-1 was very pleased to see in this week's " COMMERCIAL MOTOR " that there was a letter about the competition with the Central Company. I work up in Southampton Row, and I must say that the " General " buses are empty half the time. The service was not wanted up to Chalk Farm, and I think it would be a great deal better for both companies concerned if the " General" were to withdraw its service, and put it on, say, from Victoria to Hampstead Heath—where it used to run.
As regards speed, I must say that the " General " buses go al an excessive rate, not only on this route, but also on services 9, to, 14, etc. If they did this on service 4, where there are not other companies' buses running, it would be better, as I think three-quarters of an hour to Clapham Junction is a long time; this journey only used to take half-an-hour.-1 remain, yours faithfully, Brixton, S.W. H. C. WELCH. 23rd January.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
IS601 Sir :—I have read with interest the letter from W. V. Parslow, in your issue of the 14th inst. The inflated company mentioned is only pursuing the tactics common to it for many years past, viz., to fall upon and crush out of existence, or control, any little company which has dared to run such a thing as an omnibus on the streets of London.
"File " Central " is not the only concern undergoing this prma2ss at the present time. Let your correspondent pay a visit to the Lea Bridge Road, Leyton, where may be seen 7o of the L.G.O. buses, in opposition to the Great Eastern 34, running about almost empty, for the purpose of bringing this little up-to-date concern into the capacious maw of the trust, or compelling it to withdraw altogether. Judging front appearances, however, they have rather a hard nut to crack in the G.E.C., which is apparently holding its own.
Now, Sir, is it not time for a Traffic Authority to be appointed to regulate the number of buses to be run on each road, or is the combine to be allowed to acquire such a position? I would suggest that an arrangement be made between the G.E.C.—the most enterprising of all—and the other smaller companies to work together in self-defence.
As to the combine, it remains to be seen how long it will b( able to go on wasting its shareholders' money in this scan. dalous mariner. I write merely as a traveller, and have nt interest in any bus company.—Yours truly,
" PETROL."
Waltharnstow.
We do not think that any departure from the eustmnary law of tree col petition witi be required by authority.—Emj
Lights on Taximeters.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
L861] Sir :—I have looked up the account of the taxicab in use in Liverpool, and theif method of showing at night time whether for hire, in your issue of December 31st. No that a light to show the fare register will be compulsory, it is very much to be hoped that the opportunity will lx taken to provide a light to show that the cab is engaged oi the reverse, whichever may be found to be more convenient If the former, the same light might perhaps serve for botl purposes.
I think an improvement on the Liverpool " for hire' light, which is shown in your illustration as a naked glow lamp, would be the provision of a circular disc of colouret glass in front of it, very much like those used on railwa) signals, and some six or seven inches in diameter, so that ii could be well seen at a distance. I would also suggest that crimson might be preferable to blue. I was much strucli by this colour, as recently employed for a theatre poster, and which you yourself may have seen. It was, of course, seen by daylight. How the colour would look at night is a matter for experiment, but it is very necessary that the ptruu4, bli,c should have the aid of some such light. —Yours W. FRANK.
London, W.C.
"An Important Repeat Order."
The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[862] Sir :—We have pleasure in giving " Interested " thc information asked for in his letter in your issue of 2 rst January, and, to ensure exactness, we do not rely upon the figures in our books, but wrote to Mr. Milne requesting him to give us the correct cost of renewals, repairs and overhauls on his No. i three-ton van, supplied by us early in 1906. In reply, Mr. Milne informs us that the cost to date is 4'92, exclusive of tires, and that the mileage run is well Over 45,000.
The main items which have had to be renewed are : driving and driven bevel wheels; new side driving chains; several bushes; brake shoes, pins, and parts of brake gear ; and a few other small items. The original gearwheels are all still in use, and arc in excellent condition, a fact which we attribute to the special "always-in-mesh " type of gearbox, which we employ on all our chassis to carry over 25ewt.
We think that the above cost for keeping a three-ton van in repair is a very moderate one, and should set at ease the fears of many possible buyers of commercial-motor vehicles, whose great bogey has hitherto been the unknown quantity, i.e., the repair bill.—Yours faithfully,
HALLEY'S INDUSTRIAL MOTORS, LTD. Gilt). H. HALLEY, Managing Director.
Yoker, Glasgow.
'wo or Four Cylinders.
The Editor, " THE COMMERcIALToR."
L8631 Sir :—Mr. R. Dennis's letter, in your issu• of :4th January, claiming superiority for the four-cylinde:unpile over the two-cylinder ditto tor loads of over one ton, ye do nut at all agree with. Our experience, as mainline.urers of both, is that under normal conditions the two:ylinder engine is much the best for loads up to tw o tons. 'For loads above this weight, we consider the four-cylinder mgine scores.
Mr. Dennis further asserts that the vibration set up by he two-cylinder engine of 18h.p. or over is injurious to the Alter parts of the motor chassis, but this, again, v. e cannot Tree with, as we have built and supplied upwards of too :ominercial motors, carrying from 3ocwt. to two tons and itted with two-cylinder engines of 2oh.p„ in wlich the ibration has no evil effect, and which, as regards flexibility, :an, we venture to assert, give points to many four-cylinder notors of tile same horse-power and carrying capacity, and his with a much lower petrol consumption, half the number )f moving and wearing parts, and consequently less attention .equired,and upkeep cost considerably lower.
When loads of over two tons have to be conveyed, we are .n complete agreement with Mr. Dennis that the four:ylinder engine is preferable, on account of the lar.te total oad which has to be moved.—Yours faithfully, HALLEY'S I NOY:STRIA'. MOTORS, LTD. GEo. H. !TALLEY, Managing Director. Yoker, Glasgow.
The Effect ol Import Duty on Commercial-vehicle Design.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[86_ fl Sr :—I see " The Extractor," in your issue of the r4th instant, while mentioning the sojourn of Messrs. jes;op's representative in the States, touches on a very importlot point which would interest all commercial motor-vehicle /takers, that is, the effect which the heavy import duty mposed by certain countries has on the utility chassis profitted in the country which imposes the said duty. Now, with retard to the United States and to Mr. W. H. Thomas's opinion as to the excellence and quiet running of :heir commercial vehicles, I venture to think that such a Aatetnent may lead many of your readers to form an erraticms opinion concerning this line of business in the U.S.A. to begin with, we see that something like 45 per cent.
duty is charged on imported chassis, with the result that few users in the States can afford to purchase British or Conti nental trucks, and the toreign cabs which are already in use—with the exception of so Argylls and a few Renaults— are of the cheap types which can alone, after that addition, rival lhe locally-made cob in price. The general result is that the Anierican manufacturer sees that there is little chance of curnpejtion from British or Continental makers, and in consequence lets his notions of design run riot. This, of course, results in the production of some of the most uncanny commercial-vehicle freaks imaginable. With the exception of such firms as the Packard Motor Company, whose three-ton type of lorry was recently illustrated (page 384) in your paper, the average American manufacturer cannot bear to see the vertical motor in its right place, i.e., under the bonnet; he therefore buries it under the driver's seat or the footboards ; more often than not, if it is a five-ton chassis, he adopts air-cooling and a two-speed epicyclic gear. In fact, it seems that the more the engine, etc., is stowed away, the higher rises he American maker's ideal of fool-proof ness. Then, again, we see that the unfortunate double-opposed horizontal engine, as well as the friction drive and two-stroke motor, are all used ad nauseam in the States, all these features being points which could never be even tolerated in this country. The electric truck is undoubtedly doing good work in the States; it is, however, the result of many years' experience, and one should remember that the lighter kinds are too slow for use in London, whilst heavy ones could never find a place over here. At about seven miles an hour—their top speed—they practically take the place of the steam wagon in the 'U.S.A., but they are more expensive, to the extent of ;Mout od. per mile, to rim. In other words, the steam wagon is peculiar to our country and capital, and the big electric truck is peculiar to the American cities; at that we must leave them.
I would like to add that I have nothing to say against the quality of the material put into American trucks; my point is that the production of freak vehicles is being fostered by the imposition of a heavy import duty, and this is afact which no one who understands the subject can deny. By our free-trade policy, British makers have had to face fierce competition with Continental makers, hut this has happily resulted in the production of intelligently-designed, highstandard and generally-decent-looking utility chassis in our
islands.— Yours faithfully, "A. E. A. M.T." London.