Opinions from Others.
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The Future Three-twiner.
The Editor, THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR.
,257] 8ir,—In referenee to the discussion being carried on under the above heading, it appears to the writer that the question of the future three-tunner can vary well be left to the future itself, for, by the time that very-indefi nits period has arrived, it is highly probable that both intereal-combustion motors and steam vehicles will still be running—whether in their present form, or not, can be left to the natural development of each system, which is bound to take place. For the present., which, after all, is the time that immediately concerns us, " Lancashire Carrier," in his enthusiasm for steam—unintentionally I believe—hardly gives the internal-combustion engine the credit which is certainly due to it. In the first place, it is entirely owing te the successful running of petrol lorries on rubber tires, that the steam lorry has recently been fitted with them, in order to meet the competition which threatened the extinction of the three-ton steam wagon. On the qm etion of reliability, the present-day petrol meter can justly claim at least quite as much reliability as the steam s chicle. Motor-mail services require the utmost reliability, and I believe 1 am correct in saying that ell such motor services in this country are maintained by petrel vehicles. In general commercial use, there is ample testimony from actual users, as to the reliability of their petrol vehicles.
Regarding Lancashire Carrier's " reason for supporting steam as the source of energy, in preference to exploding a mixture of gas and air in a cylinder, it is highly probable that a petrol-engine designer can state, within limits sufficiently close fur all practical purposes, what the resulting pressures will be from the explosion of definite quantities of gas and air. At any rate, the steam;miler designer cannot estimate within closer limits what ere the strains the boiler is subjected to owing to unequal expansion and contraction. These facts, however, do not prevent satisfactory hollers or petrol engines being made, although, if the strains in both eases were possible of definite statement, it would no doubt be an advantage. The internal-combustion engine ean certainly be claimed tlie more simple source of power of the two, for the energy is directly expended in one vessel where it is required for power purposes. The steam engine neccesitates the conversion of fuel into heat in the fire-box, the conversion of another element, water, into steam in the boiler, and then the development of power by the steam in a third v easel.
In speaking of the mechanical disadvantages of the petrol engine, the expression " introduce one wrong element, and the whole system falls to the ground like a pack of cards! " is too vivid, as, from such a phrase, the uninitiated would be led to imagine that if the ignition failed, then the vehicle would fall to pieces and dunip its load in a heap on the road. If, with ii petrol engine. a small defect has a more-immediate effect on its efficiency than with a steam engine, with the better knowledge drivers now have of petrol engines, they are able to locate the defect much more readily, and, if a slight defect has an immediate result, an equally-slight and inexpensive remedy will effect a cure, resulting in the general etendard rul efficiency being maintained. From my experienee in the repair of steam road engines and wagons, I have noted that the small defect not having an immediatelyobservable effect has frequently resulted in the defect continuing unchecked, until at last it has developed to such proportions as to necessitate a very-expensive repair.
While I may not be in entire agreement with all Mr. Aveling's remarks, at the same time, the fact that the internal-combustion vehicle does not suffer from the disadvantages of the steam vehicle or rice vecs«, is an
important point in considering the suitability of either type for the work in view. Therefore, as the internalcombustion vehicle does not suffer from the disadvantages of extra weight, necessity of picking up water, etc., then the petrol velliele as a road machine is superior to the steamer in these respects. What stronger proof of this is needed than the letter [No. 789] by " J.5." (St. Albans), pointing out the difficulty of obtaining suitable solid fuel, and a reference, also in the Press, re a driver being fined for taking water, although he was willing to pay for it.
In regard to the wear and tear of high-speed machinery, the same arguments were advanced against the introduction of the high-speed steam engine, yet it is the mestgenerally used to-day; the high-speed internal-combustion engine will be found to hold its own, as regards wear, for the reason that, with the demand, there has followed the supply of suitable metals to meet the long wear under the conditions imposed.
" Lancashire Carrier " is very just in granting the advantage of at least 30 cwt. reduced tare weight of the internal-combustion muter-vehicle, which certainly has its effect in reducing the tire upkeep costs; but, if one is to believe what one hears, then, instead of " steam-lorry builders showing the wise discretion " assigned to them, " the internal-combustien-engine builders have demonstrated " the success (" instead of the folly ") of their vehicles to such purpose as to result in the steam-engine builders " being bitten in the same way." Regarding the future of the two types, I think it can fairly be claimed that the development of the internalcombustion motor has been more rapid, and has tesulted in greater improvements, than in the case of the steam vehicle over a longer period, and there is no reason why the former should not continue to develop at least as rapidly as the steamer, so that the race is likely to continue, and the result will be summed up in the words of your Editorial which started the discussion—" neither form of prime mover leis ousted the other."
Apologizing for the length of this letter.—Yours
T. MARTIN GAMBLE.
26, Cannon Street, Birmingham.
The Editor, THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR.
[1,258J much appreciate the tone of " Lancet
shire Carrier's " letter [No. 1,251] puldielied in Time ComMS:R(1AL MOTOR of the 10th inst. My reasons for predicting the adoption of the internal-combustion engine fee the future three-tonner are based upon my own, personal, practical experience of both steam and the internal-combustion engines. has " Lancashire Carrier " personally experienced the use of the internal-combustion engine for this class of work S The problem of the future threetonner is comparatively an easy proposition, compared to that of the henry Colonial-type road-locomotive, hauling 50 tone, of some '20 years ago. In fact, I am of the opinion that the future three-tanner will work under the nmet-favolirable conditions certainly not under the " mest-tryieg conditions conceivable," as suggested by
he mei shire Carrier."
'Ike system suggested cannot be so " very-delicately balanced," when we know that internal-combustion threeton lorries have run some 20,000 miles without engine adjustment. The amount of energy to be derived from exploding a mixture of gas and air in a cylinder is a veryeertain quantity, and the level of the horse-power line in some types of internal-combustion engines has been known to rise rather than to fall, as suggested by " Lancnshire Carrier," after use. Respecting the transmission gear of the two systems, my endeavours have been to point out to " Lancashire Carrier " the advantage of gear and clutch drive in lengthening the life of rubber tires, and have claimed no such advantages as suggested by him ie • the fifth para,graph,of his letter. In the next paragraph, he states that " Mr. Aveling believes that the life of metal is proportional to the amount of wear it endures, whereas, the inverse of this is clearly the true statement! " I have aiever made this statement, but I quite agree with the former part thereof. With the internal-combustion *engine, although the maximum stress is higher than steam at 1,000 r.p.m., the maximum stress only occurs 500 times. With the steam engine, as generally applied to steam wagons, at .500 r.p.m., the maximum stress occurs 1,000 times.
" Lancashire Carrier " then goes on to say that, " if the tare weight is to be the deciding factor," one of my premises in deciding the type of the future three-tonner, " the steam engineer will meet the case by using his -steam at a higher pressure and temperature." He admits there is a case to be met, but does away with Ids
• best claim for the steamer by suggesting higher pressures and temperatures. '' Lancashire Carrier ' does not agree with me that the three-tonner will ever have to compete -with the five-tonner. Permit me to inform him, that at the present time the three-tonner has to compete with the .five-tonner, and that it cannot do so successfully without the higher speed obtained from the use of rubber tires.
Finally, to close my arguments on the matter, will
Lancashire Carrier " agree that the future three-tonner !must of necessity—to keep on the road—have at least the following qualifications: high road speed—therefore rubber tires or their equivalent; low total moving load, i.e., low tare weight; fewness of parts, i.e., no boiler, etc.; cleanliness ; large running area without fuel or water stoppages; no need of attention when standing ; singleman control; immediate readiness for use; freedom on the road and in goods' sheds from live fire, sparks and ashes; low first cost; reliability ; large area of platform with -shortest efficient wheelbase; accessibility of all parts; adaptability to legal requirements; low total running and upkeep charges; instantaLeous answer to call for immediate full power ? Can all these requirements be obtained by the use of steam as simply and as easily as from the internal-combustion engine? There is only one real answer, and, as "Carrier " from " Lancashire," at least with this he will agree, when everything is said and done, just wait and see.—Yours faithfully,
T. C. AVELINO. 91, New Canal Street, Birmingham.
'Miniature Motorvans.
The Editor, THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR.
[1,259] Sir,—With reference to your note about miniature motorvans on page 222 of your issue for to-day, I may say that I consider this class of commercial motor would have been popular long ago if manufacturers had only shown enough common sense to make them. In connection with this, the enclosed photograph of my 7 h.p. twocylinder Star van may interest you, as it is a machine for loads of 5 cwt. ; 1 have been working it since 1906. It has run 58,000 miles, and it costs, on an average, 3d. a mile to run, including driver, tires, repairs, and everything. Until my brother dissolved partnership with me, we had two of these little machines, both purchased in 1906. In spite of the fact that these little Stars were going well, the makers ceased to manufacture them.
Another miniature commercial chassis which attracted my attention some years ago was the little Parsons van made by Sturmeys, but after it had been advertised well and had accomplished useful work in Some instances, like the other promising miniature chassis, it became extinct. There is undoubtedly a market for miniature motorvans, and it is up against manufacturers to supply this need and not to let us down when we wish to purchase subsequent vehicles of the same make.Yours faithfully, H. CHAPPELL.
34, Fulham Road, S.W., 17th November, 1910.
Welsh Steam Coal Depots.
The Editor, THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR.
0,260] Sir,—The suggestion of your correspondent re the above is a good one and your paper would render a great service to the trade, especially the removal trade, if a list of vendors of steam coal in various parts of the country could be published, either in a special column in your paper or the list sold to steam-wagon proprietors. I would, however, suggest that anyone having Welsh steam coal for disposal should send their names and addresses to you for insertion as one-line advertisements in your paper, for which announcement a small charge could be made to repay your paper. Readers would greatly appreciate such action.—Yours faithfully, BEN. PURSER AND SONS.
Lord Street, Southport. 16th November, 1910.
Re R.A.S.E. Agricultural Motor Trials.
The Editor, THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR. [1,261] Sir,—It is now over three months since these trials took place, but up to time of writing no official report has been issued by the judges of the Society. We have, on various occasions, written to the secretary, and in a letter dated the 16th inst. he informs us that the official report is still ' in course of preparation."
We cannot understand why there is such a great delay in the issuing of the report. If trials of this kind are to be of a-ny service both to the manufacturer and the user. surely it is essential that official reports should be issued within a reasonable time, and not months afterwards, when the whole matter has sunk into oblivion.--Yours faithfully, For THE 'VET. AGRICULTURAL MOTORS, LTD. A. HOFFMANN, Manager.
45-6, Poland Street, London, W.
18th November, 1910.
Orders from Overseas.
The Editor: THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR.
[1.262] Sir,—In the announcement of the publication of your " Dominion and Overseas " Special Number, I see you mention the following inquiry received from India:— " I read a paragraph on page 1:38 of your issue of the 21st October last (1909), in which mention was made of a petrol-electric omnibus being run at Blackpool by Mr. W. A. Stevens. As I am interested in the introduction of the petrol-electric bus into India, I should be glad if you would kindly put me into communication with Mr. Stevens."
To that you kindly replied and sent my address; you will be interested to hear that, as a direct result of your notice and the above inquiry, my company received an order for two petrol-electric omnibus chassis (described on page 161 of your issue of 27th October last), and that these are now on their way to India.—With many thanks, I remain, yours faithfully. For W. A. STEVENS, LTD., WILLIAM A. STEVENS.
Victoria Works, St. Peter Street, Maidstone, 17th November, 1910.