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COACH OPERATORS IN THE COMMON MARKET

What's in store for Britain's psi, operators when we join the EEC? CM Editor Brian Cottee asked Denis Quin, director of the Passenger Vehicle Operators' Association

BC: The PVOA is well known for having taken a praiseworthy initiative in Europe, among trade associations. How far have you been able to maintain and consolidate that position?

DQ: Well. I do believe that we were one of the early ones off the mark in this field. When, under the last Government, new initiatives were taken, we believed that they would be successful and we started our thinking at that stage, although we had to deal with bodies outside the Community — the Economic Commission for Europe, the European Conference of Ministers of Transport, later on the International Labour Office. Any contact that would enable us to meet and talk to the officials of the Community and to get across our own ideas.

Our first real opportunity came very shortly after Britain signed the Treaty of Accession. It so happened that the IRU liaison committee, which officially represents the European operators within the Community, had a meeting with M. Coppe the transport commissioner, and they asked if a British representative could attend this meeting. I was fortunate enough to be the one who attended, and this gave us the most direct and personal contact, which we have been able to build on.

I asked if we might send our own team from the Association to Brussels to meet officials so that we as new boys could learn what it was all about and could also express our viewpoints. We had a meeting, to which we sent a team of six; we briefed ourselves very carefully and I think it was valuable. As a result of this we submitted a number of memoranda, most particularly on the so-called social conditions: drivers' hours, driver training, records, tachographs, etc. In return, they have sent their own officials here to our offices in London to discuss these documents and at the moment we are awaiting a further meeting in Brussels. I had a letter recently from M. Rho, the director-general for transport, saying that he would be offering us a date in the very near future. We seem to have built up some fairly close contacts, but it's not easy because of the bureaucratic nature of the Commission.

If we can try to build up the sort of working understanding we have with our own Department of the Environment, this will be very beneficial. Even where they don't agree with us they will listen to us and take note of our arguments. Indeed, they have already told us this and have expressed the view that from Britain they receive more positive, concrete and reasoned and documented ideas than they have been used to in the past.

BC: So you get the impression that the Europeans are seeing a real professionalism from Britain's operator associations and from the Ministry?

DQ: I think that would be fair comment. We don't go and say "this is terrible, it will never work," we say "tins is terrible, it won't work because .. ." and we explain our reasons. Even so, when you are dealing with things that are in the future it is not easy to conVince people. We had this experience with 'our own drivers' hours law and the 1968 provisions. We managed to persuade the Government that they had gone too far, but there came a point when they said: no, this is perfectly adequate, you can do with this, we don't need to water it down any more. We said: well, you've made life possible, but we'll see. In the event, they came to see that we had to have relaxations and, of course, the law that then had to be relaxed was not nearly so crippling to the industry, and the service it can give to the public, as are the drivers' hours regulations in Europe.

BC: Could it be that these restrictive hours have not been an embarrassment to European psv operators because the law is mainly observed in the breach?

DQ: Yes. The EEC offidials all insist that the law is being observed. This is just not true. Even in Germany we have it on the most accurate possible authority that they have no alternative but to ignore this hours law. It will not come into operation in this country until January 1 1976, and if only in the intervening three years 4 would be enforced in Europe we'd have nothing to worry about: they'd just have to change it. , The present provision is based on an eight-hour driving day, with nine hours twice a week, 10 hours' rest between two days' work, one rest day after any six days' work, plus periods of rest during the day, etc. This, of course, is very difficult, particularly for the coaching industry.

BC: This is what is operating in Europe now and will operate for our international drivers from April 1 1973.

DQ: Yes; but, of course, that is a very theoretical operation — it's honoured in the breach, as you.say.

BC: Then what is it that concerns you even more than this on the "social" front?

DQ: The so-called second social regulation. This has been passed by the Commission of the Community and has now been referred to the Council, which actually makes regulations. It is now at the stage of going to the Economic and Social Committee for consultation with the industry, but of course not much notice is taken of this committee. Perhaps because the people who sit on it are too many retired men, knowledgeable yes, but perhaps they've lost some of their fire. I can't help feeling that a little more drive here would be to the benefit of the Community, because the Commission is far too bureaucratic.

Anyway, this regulation will shortly be coming before the Council. Not only British operators but also the British Government realize the shortcomings of the EEC policy in this respect — we have experienced the damage it does.

BC: Is there any chance that the British Government's Opposition will be effective; will it be joined by opposition from other countries in the enlarged Community?

DQ: Well, even those countries which are not really in favour seem to be bowing to the inevitable. They say that this is "social progress". Let me give some examples of what this second regulation would mean: It would limit the aggregate spreadover. We have got to watch the differences between the Britiah law and the European — this is spreadover, not "on duty" time. Spreadover includes time off duty within the working day, and the absolute limit for regular services which were not exempt under existing regulations would be 60 hours a week, ie. 10 hours a day average. For occasional services this would be 65 hours a week and frankly we cannot live with it. The coaching industry demands long spreadovers and it would mean that we could not give service without virtually doubling the number of drivers — and there are plans which make it doubtful whether we shall be getting enough drivers in future.

BC: So this is 60 or 65 hours maximum weekly spreadover time, not duty time?

DQ: Just spreadover time. On a day trip a driver could be off duty for five or six hours or even more, but those hours would still count to the weekly aggregate spreadover.

Then there is provision for 28 days' minimum annual holiday. No one is against holidays, but nao§t of the drivers would not wish to have as long as that. They would want part of the time and then would no doubt like to take money for the remainder; but they don't really want a holiday of 28 days in addition to rest days.

BC: You spoke about not having enough drivers. Were you referring to the very high training standards which the EEC is trying to introduce?

DQ: Yes, there is a draft directive which was introduced a few years back. As it stands it is already a compromise, but the standards proposed are quite impossible. In the words of many of our Government officials, this driver training is comparable to training the man to be a professor or a transport manager, and in general terms it is far above the standard necessary for driving a vehicle. Fortunately it is only a directive, not a regulation, but unless we can have this draft modified it would mean, I think, that the supply of drivers would dry up.

There are other proposed ways of qualifying as a psv driver, besides examinations which are written, oral and practical. For example, in order to qualify to drive a bus on country lanes or a coach a man could either drive a lorry (which involves totally different techniques — braking, acceleration, for example), or alternatively he could qualify by driving an exempt service for a year, such as a London Transport bus down the middle of Oxford Street. This is typical of the thinking in the Commission —pot practical. They are not alive to the realities of passenger transport at all.

To make this point clear: there are three forms of entry allowed under Regulation 543 /69. First, by the examinations which I have mentioned and a very involved syllabus far beyond the practical requirements. Second, by driving for a year a lorry of over 3.5 metric tons gross, and third by driving a passenger vehicle on an exempt regular service which does not have to comply with the hours regulations.

BC: Will there be a grandfather clause for all existing drivers?

DQ: Yes, all existing drivers will be allowed to continue.

BC: How long do you think it will be before this is introduced, if it is introduced?

DQ: I realty have no idea. Clearly there is considerable opposition from the whole of the operating industry in the enlarged Communities. We shall just try to hold it off until something reasonable is obtained. We agree that there must be sensible standards, and we have had training in this

country since 1930. Maybe we want to develop this, but it must be at a practical level.

BC: What then is the Commission's general view about the stage which passenger transport regulation has reached in the Community, and the advent of the new members?

DQ: Well, I was quite taken by an expression M. Coppe used when I met him in February. He pointed out several times that the Commission was sympathetic to the problems of Britain entering the Community, but said they had gone a long • way along the road and they could hardly turn the bus round just because a new passenger had come on board.

That is quite a potent argument and I think we must appreciate what he is saying. Nevertheless, where their ideas are wrong we have to do everything possible to show them what ought to be done in the interests, not just of the industry and its employees, but of the public.

BC: From what you have said up to now, one sees few advantages for British psv operators in joining the Community. Are you personally in favour of EEC membership for Britain?

DQ: Personally, yes. I believe Britain had to join the Community. But so far as transport is concerned I have to confess I cannot see anything tangible that is to the . benefit of the psv operator. In a few years there may be some benefit through equalization of taxation — harmonization of taxation by 1980 or thereabouts. But in the meanwhile there is a lot of terribly damaging legislation which I repeat will impair our ability to give service to the public.

BC: What is the first effect of our-EEC membership that will be felt by British coach operators?..

DQ: I always stress that the importance of the Community regulations is their effect in this country. But the first thing we shall notice is that on July I we have to change to the large, unwieldy EEC carnet as the. international control document. At the moment we use either the ECMT or the French carnet de declarations. Then in due course (because they will not allow us to hurry them) we expect to change back to a simple carnet like the ones we are using at present. They have told us bluntly they cannot either defer the introduction of the EEC document or bring forward the change of design. Of course, before then the EEC drivers' hours regulations will take effect for international journeys — as from April 1. But we are observing those already, so I don't see that as introducing a new problem.

BC: What will be the first piece of EEC legislation to affect the domestic psv operator?

DQ: Drivers' hours rules on January 1 1976, and that is where our troubles really start — unless in the meantime we can have this law amended. I am fearful that if the law is not amended British operators will completely ignore, because they have no alternative, an impossible set of regulations. This is not a situation which a responsible trade association can accept as the last word. We must strive to have regulations that are realistic and can be observed. This is going to be a very difficult struggle, and for a small association quite a drain on our resources. For us, with a small industry compared with many. there is just as much work involved as for bigger associations in dealing with the Commission. We have to do a lot more than many other industries. It is rather worrying, and we hope our members will understand that it is really important for their future that we should be doing this work at this stage. After all, they are the ones that have to pay for it.

BC: Surely another measure which will affect operators from January 1 1976 is the fitting of tachographs on new vehicles? Is the EEC provision for this any less onerous than the one which caused such a storm under Mrs Castle's ministry?

DQ: True. tachographs are required in the Community regulations, for new vehicles from January 1 19 76, and for all vehicles from January 1 19 78. The EEC regulation is not quite so bad, because we had a situation under Mrs Castle's 1968 Act, had the section been brought into operation, whereby a failure in this small piece of equipment worth, say, £50 to £100 could put the whole vehicle off the road. At least, in the Community requirement, if the tachograph breaks down you can go on to written records, so we don't have quite such an acute problem.

BC: Will the green card system of insurance be maintained when we become a Community member?

DQ: The directive on insurance requires cover for the whole of the Community's territories. Nevertheless we believe, and I cannot be more certain at the moment, that we will in practice retain something very similar to the green card situation. In other words, the policy will probably cover the whole of the Community's territory, but if the vehicle is going abroad the insurance will be abrogated unless the visit is reported and an additional premium paid. In other words, whatever they call it we are back to the green card again.

BC: Over here before an operator can run for hire or reward he has to obtain a psv licence. Is our membership of the EEC going to alter that in any major way?

DQ: In the draft regulation which has been sorne time betwixt the Commission and the Council there is provision for operators to undergo an examination, but of course on a higher plane for entry as a manager in the transport industry, than for a driver. There are three aspects to this: character, financial stability and professional competence. In theory, one can see that this is necessary. In Britain we have had perhaps a more flexible system whereby the fitness of an applicait for a psv licence is determined, and with Section 35 of the 1968 Act this was to some extent codified. (Though I have heard chairmen of Traffic Commissioners make quite rude remarks about Section 35 as a practical basis.) Still, it is more flexible than the thinking of the Communities. For example, on character you are required to produce your police record. Of course in this country, unless you have a criminal record, you don't have a record at all. So we couldn't comply with that.

Financial capacity, again, is something envisaged in Section 35 but the EEC criteria, yet to be determined, will be more precise. As for professional competence, here is something for which we don't have any test at the moment, but I think that so long as the standards demanded are reasonable and practical this would be a good thing.

It's funny, though, that in this country while we've never written this thing down so demandingly, with examinations and and so on required by regulation, we are in fact ahead of Europe with our training and our professional bodies. No doubt the Chartered Institute of Transport will be making quite an impact in Europe because they have nothing like it over there. The examinations of the CIT could be the answer, for professional qualifications. No doubt City and Guilds will also make their mark. They are the right idea, a bit more flexible and practical than European thinking. This is just one of the many fields where I believe Britain has a great deal to offer the Community from its late-in-the-day membership.

If we take it gently I believe they will accept much of our thinking because we are a more developed road passenger industry, I. believe, than any of the existing Community countries taken right across the board. We have a lot to contribute, but we must avoid pushing our views down people's throats — just offer our thoughts and quietly lead. Equally, we must recognize that we have a lot to learn from our fellow members and if we go in with this attitude I believe that at the practical level there will be benefits. At the legal level, with the regulations and directives, we shall have to wait and see.

There are certainly going to be changes with Britain's entry — not least changes in the European Commissioners appointed to Brussels from other countries, so no doubt this is a considerable moment of change in the future of the Community.