Training and labour relations: a searching probe
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AT an "interrogation" session on Wednesday, lain Sherriff, deputy editor, Commercial Motor, Arthur Sherlock-Mesher. editor, Road Way, and Philip Hine, an assistant editor of Motor Transport put searching questions on training to Mr. W. McMillan, an RHA vice-chairman, a director of James Hemphill Ltd. and until recently the RHA nominated representative on the RTITB: and on labour rOiations to Mr. Alex Kitson, general secretary. Scottish Commercial Motormen's Union and a member of the Road Haulage Wages Council and the RTITB.
This is an edited version of the exchanges:— 1.S.: Is it Board policy not to meet operators? W.McM.: On the contrary, Board officials regularly go out to meet members of the industry. A.S-M.: There is an item of £200,000 in the Board's accounts for private cars. At an average cost of £900 each that means there is one car for every three members of the RTITB staff. Do you regard this as an extravagance?
W.McM: Most of the Board officials who have cars are out in the regional offices and have big areas to cover. The extravagance is at headquarters where possibly a car is more of a status symbol. A.S-M.: Does the Board's finance committee decide what is spent? There is only one haulage employer on the finance committee, two educationalists. two trade union representatives and two employees' representatives. Employers are outvoted four to two in any attempt to control expenditure. W.McM.: This is a true assessment of the situation, not only on the finance committee but on the Board itself. Employers are in this situation when it comes to spending money. When it comes to raising it, educationalists do not vote on the levy: therefore it is one to one. Employers raise the money and think that they ought to have the sole say in how it should be raised, and presumably a greater say in how it should be spent.
PH,: Do you think that the advanced driver training programmes the Board is mounting will cut turnover in drivers? With fewer drivers to train will the levy on hauliers be cut? W.McM.: In the next four years a 10 per cent increase in drivers is expected. The Board therefore expects to train more, not fewer, drivers. On the question of limiting costs a good deal could be done; for example the Board is investing in MOTECs. These are very expensive units and from the account calculated for the next two years there is an income of about £184mand of that £3i-m. has been earmarked for MOTECs.
LS,: You anticipate a 10 per cent increase in demand for drivers. Can we expect a corresponding. increase in training staff and consequently in the training levy?
W.McM.: One MOTEC has been established and two more are planned. These establishments are the universities of the industry and should be utilized for training the instructors. Once these people have been trained, the need for these will diminish and we have got to be careful not to over-invest in these establishments, but to concentrate basically on group training, for which there are now 40 groups.
A.S-M.: Do you hold out any hope that in the next levy year we shall get a differential levy? W.McM.: I doubt it.
A.S-M.: Mr. Kitson, what is your attitude to road haulage employers?
A.K.: I want good relationships in the industry and for us to live together and make it worthwhile for each other.
A.S-M.: You launched a resounding attack on hauliers recently and said that they were still operating by cut-throat methods.
A.K.: Yes, they are.
I.S.: Surely part of the trouble is that we have too many trade unions in the industry?
A.K.: There are not too many unions in road haulage. Only three are represented on the Road Haulage Wages Council.
P.H.: Do the unions intend to support members with claims for two basic wage increases per year? They go once a year to the Wages Council and once
to the employers—two increases a year.
&K.! Unfortunately I have got members in firms which are not organized, so I have no interest in Wages Council basic minimums for firms who pay well, but only in the case of employers who do not want trade unions.
1.8.: When the second stage in the reduction in drivers' hours is introduced it may be accompanied by tachographs. What is your view about these?' A.K.: If the Ministry gives us the reduction in drivers' hours demanded. I accept tachographs. P.1-1.; When quality licensing gets under way do you intend to put drivers in Court to say that they have been driving excessive hours or on badly maintained vehicles?
A.K.: We will not be putting drivers in Court. If I have got certain rights to object to licences I will clear up any problems with the operators. If i have to go to the extent of going to the Licensing Authority, it will not be before I have been to see the operator.
What are your objections to work study? A.K.: I think that without spending lots of money we could sit down and get productivity in this industry by clearing away the problems surrounding basic wage rates. We don't need work study to get productivity.
1.8.: Drivers who are doing Glasgow to London journeys are doing it quicker than they are prepared to admit on a logsheet.
A.K.: They will do it even quicker if they are getting more money.
A.S-M.: Why did the unions sabotage the National Negotiating Committee?
A.K.: I sabotaged it. I have always gone along with the RHA, who have some standing and power in the industry. The reason why I withdrew from the meetings was because if there was a dispute with certain RHA members and 1 suggested going to the ININC they said they wanted nothing to do with it. When the RHA has power over its members like, for example, the Engineering Federation, then I will attend the meetings.