Motors in the Cold Storage and Ice Industries.
Page 21
Page 22
Page 23
If you've noticed an error in this article please click here to report it so we can fix it.
On Tuesday evening, the 4th instant, a meeting was held of the Cold Storage and Ice Association at the London Cluimber of Commerce, Oxford Court, Cannon Street, E.C., when Mr. Worby Beaumont introdueed a discussion on the subject of utility motors for the trade.
The CetanotaN (Mr. T. Brown), having briefly introduced Mr. Beaumont, that gentleman said that some three years ago he had, virtually, promised to read a paper upon the subject of motor vehicles in relation to the cold storage industry ; but the paper had not been read, partly because of pressure of business, and partly because, at that time, very little information of practical value could be given to those whom he was now addressing, and who were either users or prospective users. Any person in the cold storage business, or its collateral industries, who was thinking of utilising motor traction, should first make up his mind upon three points: (11 What was it he wanted the machine to do? (21 What kind of weights did he want it to carry? And (3) When arid where did he want to carry them? Full information under these three heads should be given, and then the prospective user could be told whether the venture was likely to succeed commercially or not. He was not now reading a paper ; what he was doing was merely introducing points for discussion, which might serve the useful purpose of getting those concerned in this business to make up their minds as to what they really wanted, so that they could instruct the makers of vehicles as to their requirements. It was always to be remembered that, however able manufacturers might be, they could not be expected to know the particular requirements of each partic ular trade, and the many points upon which success, in the use of the vehicles they made, depended. Fur instance, there were many chisels in a carpenters shop, each of which was useless except for the partieular purpose for which it was designed, and no ironmonger could provide a carpenter with a satisfnctory chisel except the carpenter explained the use to which he intended to put the implement. It was the same with motor vehicles for commercial purposes. Manufacturers were studying the best methods of producing vehicles, but it lay with the traders to teach the makers what were the best machines for each particular trade. Of course, it depended a great deal upon the kind of business whether a motor vehicle would he a commercial failure or not, and, speaking generally, it might be said that, where thera were no return loads, or the distances were short, and the time occupied in unloading long, there motor vehicles could not he successfully employed. Rut it was impossible to draw a hard and fast line.
Variable Management.
There might be two people engaged ILl precisely the same business, and orte might find a motor a successful investment, and the other employ it in such a way that it would be it costly failure. There were trades which had an obvious advantage, over the trade with which those whom he was addressing were associated, in the employment of motor haulage. Brewers had always a return load in bringing empty barrels home, and the cost of the delivery, accordingly, sometimes varied between 3d. and 4dh per ton mile. In the same trade, however, the cost was sometimes 70. per ton mile, the difference being caused by the varying distances, and the time occupied in loading and unloading. As a rule, brewers found motors distinctly profitable, because they could do longer journeys and more journeys than horses. In passing from the East End of London to the West End, there was great interference on account of the traffic, and in such cases it was a question whether the motor had an advantage over horses, but where the vehicle could pass over fairly good roads with little interference from the traffic, there the advantages of the motor showed themselves. A great factor was the number of stoppages. Some of the dust-collecting wagons of municipal corporations did their work at the cost of per ton mile. This, of course, was an extreme instance, and it was due to the large amount of time the wagons were standing. Under those circumstances, or any similar circumstances, horsedrawn vehicles were cheaper than motor vehicles. Iii the cold storage and ice industry they might have machines for any loads between lOcwt, and three or four tons. A few years ago there was quite a craze to endeavour to get makers to produce vehicles to carry from eight to 10 torts, but he had always tried to discourage that, and was sure there was no necessity for vehicles to take such weights in the cold storage and ice trade. The very heavy vehicles had failed completely in the commercial world, whilst those of lesser weights had become general. As they all knew, great strides had been made of late in the industry. Two years ago he could not recommend to anyone, as a matter of proved knowledge, any vehicle which would be really satisfactory to a trader for carrying l ton or l ton ; to-day the question of providing such vehicles was easy if the makers were made fully aware of the requirements of the different trades, The Need for Specification.
It would be absolutely a waste of time for him to attempt to describe the mechanical details of the several kinds of vehicles which inight be employed in this trade, because the makers of these were makers of trustworthy vehicles, and could provide anyone with a vehicle suited for his business if the person requiring one knew exactly what he was going to do with it. No one kind of vehicle would suit several purposes, and it was not too much to say that the same kind of vehicle would not suit even two traders in the same line of business, because the circumstarc.es of each business varied. They would pardon him fur labouring this point, but he felt that it was a most importer; t one. The prospective user, on going to the maker, should say ; "I want the machine to do the work of such and such a business; I want to know whether it can carry such and such materials, to such and such places, so many times a day, at a price which will work out at a satisfactory cost per ton mile." The trader had to consider, when going into the question of motor transport, certain conveniences which would be afforded him, and whether the vehicles were worth the money. One convenience was that in times of extra pressure a few extra loads could be carried another convenience was that the motor would be available in 'hot weather, when_ horses often failed. One thing they should not forget to tell the maker, and that was what weight per cubic font would be the load, as there was a great difference, for instance, between carcases of sheep and blocks of ice. They should also tell the manufacturer the distances which would probably be travelled, the kind of roads, the gradients, amid so on. Many considerations had to be taken into account., such as the height, width, and length of the lorry, also whether petrol, steam, or electricity should he used for power. In some cases it might be better to employ electrical haulage, so as to avoid smells or heat They knew that in various American cities eleclucally-propelled vehicles were being used, a great deal, but it was to be remembered that the conditions there were very different, in certain important respects, from those which obtain here. They had a much longer period during which they could not, practically, get any work out of their horses, and the cost of the generation of current was small There were, also, various conditions in connection with horse haulage in the States which did not obtain_ on this side. A subject for consideration was whether the oily smell from petrol-driven vehicles would, or Would not, injure the contents of the vans.
Supervision and Maintenance.
As a general principle, it might be laid down that the cost of haulage by motor vehicles was less than by horses, but this was only true so long as the motor vehicles were in the hands of persons who treated them with as much care as was paid to horses. Maintenance and, repains were important points, and; if facilities for proper maintenance were not available, the user, in the absence of mechanical sympathy, would, undoubtedly, fail in his attempt to use the motor wagon profitably. If a man, or a firm, had a number of vehicles, maintenance and repairs coull be properly carried out in the owners' workshops by their ;Own people. Millers and brewers who did this had a great advantage, because their men could do little jobs every day as they were wanted. The cost of maintenance when there were no such conveniences, and there was no staff, was high, but•maintenauce, when there was a staff and there were such conveniences as he had mentioned, was so small that it became nothing, practically, per ton mile on the material carried. Unless a person was so placed that he could run a number of vehicles, and have a proper workshop, and his own staff of men on the spot to undertake the repairs, he had better not employ motor vehicles at all. There was one alternative, and that was an arrangement with the makers, or a trustworthy engineer, for the maintenance of the vehicle under contract, but even this was not likely to be very successful when there was only a vehicle or two and the distance was at all great between the user's place and the place where the repairs were to be carried out, more especially if the. people with whom the contract had been made were not properly equipped for this particular kind of work.
To sum up, the speaker said the whole of his observations. came to this : that the work of the trade could he done economically, and at a profit under certain conditions ; further, that makers could produce good arid reliable vehicles, if the prospective user was in a position to give the necessary detailed information as to what, precisely, he wanted the vehicle to do, and how he wanted the vehicle to do it. (Applause.) 'the CHAIRMAN said they were muc.h obliged to Mr. Worby Beaumont for pointing out the limitations of the successful use of commercial motors in their trade. He himself was aware that if a vehicle could be usefully employed for the whole of the day it might be an economical investment, whereas, if it was only intermittently employed, it would not compare well with horse haulage. It was interesting to know that the business of manto factoring motors had now reached that stage when, if the maker was told exactly what was wanted, he could supply it. Mr. B. M. LEONARD (hon. secretary) said that the C'aidiff Pure Ice and Cold Storage Company had had some motor wagons running between Cardiff and Newport and Barry for the last three years. A gentleman connected with the Company had written him stating that they were found a great advantage, particularly as they rendered the Company independent of the railways. Mr. Milne, of the Glasgow Ice Works, had one motor wagon, and was so well satisfied with it that he had ordered a second, The Colonial Consignment Company had made an experiment, as had also the London East India Docks Company ; the latter Company was reported to be well satisfied with motor haulage, but, owing to the present uncertainty of the position between the London Dock Companies and the Government, it was not prepared, at present, to go into the matter further. Messrs. J. and J. Nelson, in London, had tried Milnes-Daimler vehicles, and the same type of motor was also in use in South Africa. The Federal Cold Storage and lee Company had four or five MilnesDaimler vehicles, and the North Pole Tee Company had one wagon for conveying ice.
Successful Results,
Mr. G. 1'. IhtitkAp expressed the belief that it was to the ice factories, rather than to the cold storage companies, that commercial motors would prove a boon. It was 33 years ago since he first became connected with the ice industry. At that time people were glad to come and fetch away the ice ; now the companies had to deliver it. His firm had made arrangements to send out, during next summer, five-ton loads on four days a week, and there could be but little doubt that motors would pay in connection with this distribution. Some merchants and retailers used small vehicles, mostly propelled by petrol, and he believed that the results had been satisfactory in many instances. In getting ice out of the ships which conveyed it to this country, two motor wagons would have to be used, owing to the peculiar circumstances, and they could be profitably employed. As a weight carrier, the motor wagon had a distinct advantage. The first motor wagon in which he the speaker) was interested some years ago ran, after onc week's trial, continuously for 40,000 miles, and was still running. (Applause.) It did 200 miles a week, working four days a week, leaving the Saturday for overhauling purposes, and also one week in each year for general repairs. He found, on going through the books, the cost worked out at 16s. 3d. per day, including depreciation. That motor wagon displaced 14 horses, and the firm was so well satisfied with it that they afterwards employed four or five more. Ile mentioned these facts, as evidence of what might be done, provided conditions were suitable. While offering a word of caution to prospective users, he did not wish to throw any damper in the way of the industry's using, as a whole, motor transport.
A Prospective User's Difficulties.
Mr. R. B. Pacicrya said he was afraid that Mr. Beaumont was of such a cautious disposition that he had overrated, by implication, the objections, or rather the obstacles, to the trade's adopting motor haulage. Mr. Beaomont was careful to throw the responsibility of any failure of the motor to meet requirements upon the unfortunate trader, and he hoped the traders' shoulders were wide enough to bear it. When the inexpert proposed to take up some part of the business, he did not expect to be met with a fle,71 tOSSUMUS. It was all N'ery well to say to a trader that he was to tell the maker what he expected the vehicle to do, but, in his opinion) all that was required would be for the trader to say : "i have so many tons of goods per week to be carried, and this work is now being done by so many horses." "The responsibility for all the rest should be left with the consulting engineer, who should see whether he could or could not solve the problem. Mr. Beaumont's simile of a carpenter with a whole battery of chisels was an unfortunete one, for no trader could afford to keep a whole battery of motors to meet the varied requirements of his busieess. It would be impossible for the trade to make use of commercial motors if it was hedged about by all these Ihnitatiens. Motor traction was not a panacea for all the difficulties in every trade, and, according to the limitations which Mr. Beaumont had laid down, there were very few businesses connected with the cold storage and ice industries to which motors could he applied with success. In their trade there was no return traffic ; there were no empty barrels, as in the brewing trade, to bring back. Altogether, he failed to see bow any frozen meat merchant could overcome the disadvantages which Mr. Beaumoat had oointed out. But he had no doubt that, if the obstacles could be surmounted, motor wagons would Prove a con ;iderable saving upon horse haulage. Some time ago, a motor cartage company, which was probably now defunct, was anxious to do all the cartage for his company the Colonial Consignment and Distributing Company, Limited), and volunteered to do the work for a month at the figure at which the same work was done by horses. His company jumped at the offer, because they felt that, if the motor cartage company could do the work at that figure, they themselves could, afterwards, obtain motors and do it themselves, thus effecting a considerabl6 saving. The work, however, was not done satisfactorily. On short journeys it was all right, as, by the saying of time, more journeys could he performed in a day than by horses. The motors were worked by steam, and on long journeys there was no saving at all. Why, he did not know. (A voice : "Perhaps ihere were too many public houses.") Ile never knew a motor which required more rests, and never knew a motor which required so much fuel, but, of course, that had nothing to du with the terms of his contract. This motor, with a lorry attached, on which there was a six-ton load, took about 10 hours to do au ti-mile journey and back. Then, again, on sending it to a distance of 31 miles, it broke down and was delayed for several. hours, and, in all, 24 hours elapsed from the time it left to the time it returned. For the rest of the month they confined the motor to short journeys. At the end of the four weeks they showed the company the precise tonnage which had been carried, and submitted the horse costs, and the motor company admitted that it was not prepared to go on with the contract. That was a most disappointing experience. Motors had not been successful for market work, because : (I) they had to pass over a weighbridge, to take the tare, and it was almost impossible to satisfy the market superintendent about the tare of a motor wagon ; (2) for unloading purposes, a van had to be backed in, so that the load could he discharged from the tail-board ; but a motor was very difficult to manoeuvre in a limited space, and this was accentuated by the lack of experience of the drivers, it being impossible to obtain experienced men at the wages of carmen ; (3) owing to its being so cumbersome, a motor vehicle often is unfortunate enough to lose its place in the queue ; (4) the wheel base of a motor was too long td go on the market weighbridge, and, whilst this was easy to overcome to a certain extent, he mentioned it merely to show the numerous small points which had to be considered in the adoption of any new method of traction. With regard to Mr. W. Beaumont's remarks, he might mention that the members of the trade were generally in total ignorance of the roads, and of the gradients over which their cars would have to travel. Mr. Beaiimont had laid stress upon proper maintenance, but, by the very nature of their business, members of the cold storage and ice industries knew that proper and adequate maintenance was the greatest economy in the long run. He was afraid, however, that most of the traders would not have at hand the conveniences and the skilled mechanics which Mr. Beaumont said were so necessary for economical maintenance.
Mr. F. KNowl.ks spoke of the difficulty of marneuvring motor wagons.
Mr. E. R. 13Aims, representing the London and East India Dock Company, said they tried a motor lorry two or three years ago, which carried three tons of meat. A comparison between the cost of horse haulage and the motor showed there was a substantial saving by the use of the mechanical vehicle, but the saving would have been considerably reduced if the motor had not been running under ideal conditions. Had it been subject to the usual detention at both ends, and if, on several occasions, as was often the case, there had been no meat to be carried, it would have been less satisfactory. The directors went into the matter, but decided that, as there was a sword hanging over their heads in the proposal of the Government to purchase the docks, they would not be justified in going to the expense of £10;000 or £13,000 in purchasing motors.
Mr. PacicTent asked Mr. Baines would there be a saving under ordinary conditions, over horse haulage?
Mr. Baixies said they had the motor for a month, and it worked all that time under ideal conditions, with the result that there was a considerable saving. The company had a contract with cartage contractors at so much per ton, and, if the Government were not contemplating the purchase of the docks, the company would probably have purchased from 15 to 20 motors. and would have taken the position of the contracting carmen. A great advantage would be if the motor could be made detachable, so that on one day it could pull a meat van, and on another day a tea vaa, and so on. It would not do to load the mutter' in the tea van, or vi':e versA, on account of the smell and other matters. A detachable motor would be a very great convenience to dock companies, but he was not engineer enough to know whether it was possible to make it, or not.
The CHAIRMAN said that various difficulties had been pointed out in the way of the adoption by the trade of motors, but the very fact of knowing the difficulties was half the victory.
Mr. BEAUMONT, in replying to the various points raised, said he had heard with considerable interest about Mr. Harrap's motor, which ran 200 miles a week at a cost of 165. 3d. per day. But the roads over which it ran were kinder than the London paving setts were to vehicles with heavy loads and iron tires. In regard to Mr. Proctor's remarks, that gentleman had mis. t.nderstood him ; what he wanted to convey was that the user should tell the maker what he wanted the vehicle to do, and how much he wanted it to do, and then the engineer would solve
the problem. It was most essential that the maker should have an accurate knowledge of what was wanted before the vehicle was built, instead of the user's finding out, after the vehicle had been more or less spoiled, that it was not suitable for his purpose. With regard to the motor cartage company quoted, he would like to know how long ago the incident happened. Mr. PROCTOR: Twenty months.
Mr. BEAUMONT went on to say that people knew, now, more than they did 20 months ago, and the company would, no doubt, be very glad, at the present moment, to do the same work on similar terms. He could not understand what were the conditions of working when the motor was satisfactory on short journeys, and not on long journeys. In reference to the question raised as to the difficulty of mamenvring into bays, that was a difficulty whielt prevented the satisfactory use of the motor in some places. But the shorter vehicle now being made was lessening the trouble, and there was also a difference in the steering arraegements. It was surprising with what facility a number of these vehicles, carrying three tons, could be worked into and out of a bay. A gentleman had said that it was impossible for the trade in London to know in what directions the vehicles were going to travel, but a prospective user did know where his warehouse was, he knew that he wanted the vehicle chiefly to go in certain directions, and he knew it would be worked in London and not at, say, Macclesfield, where it would have to go up to the "Cat and Fiddle" at the top of the hill. A vote of thanks having been passed to Mr. Worby Beaumont, the proceedings terminated.