Automobile and Cycle Engineers' Institute.
Page 10
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Discussion on Col. Crompton's Address to the London Section.
THE CHAIRMAN (Mr. Alexander E. Tucker, F.I.C., President of the Institute) remarked that Col. Crompton had offered them matter overflowing with suggestions, lie should have stated, in his remarks in reference to the London section, that Col. Crompton had very kindly undertaken to accept the Chairmanship. (Loud applause.) The address was overflowing with suggestions, and he trusted that the problems referred to would receive some measure of solution from the various gentlemen who were so competent to deal with them.
Mr. HERBERT AUSTIN (of the Austin Motor Company, Limited), in opening the discussion, congratulated Col. Crompton on the very able way in which he had dealt with the subject, but said he would have liked him to have been a little more generous to the petrol engine. He (the speaker) could not help thinking that Cal. Crompton, like all of them, was to a very great extent biassed by his experience and education. He believed that if Col. Crompton had devoted his knowledge, training and energy in the direction of perfecting the petryl engine they would have benefited very considerably. It would be interesting to know how Col. Crompton arrived at his figures respecting the comparative cost of steam and petrol vehicles.
Col. CROMPTON: From a list in the Autocar.
Mr. AUSTIN was afraid that was not very convincing. (Laughter.) If bath were sized up, and if they knew as much about making petrol vehicles and had the same competition as obtained in connection with steam vehicles, he contended that the petrol vehicles would be the cheaper of the two. Petrol vehicles fetched such high prices simply because there was NOT SUFFICIENT COMPETITION to bring the price lower. (Laughter.) He was sure that in a couple of years the prices that would then be obtained would be considerably less than the prices charged now. He agreed with Col. Crompton that the multiplication of cylinders was not always necessary. Col. Crompton had referred to the White steam system. He (the speaker) thought the reason the White steam vehicles had been so successful was that they used petrol. (Laughter.) Col. CROMPTON: They do not ; you are making a mistake.
Mr. AUSTIN, continuing, contended that the worm gear was very much less efficient at slow speeds. The starting effort hart to be so much greater. He believed that was one of the difficulties attending the use of the worm drive. A fact which a great many designers did not seem to realise—and it was a very necessary feature in the successful designing of a motor vehicle—was that the dead weight which was not supported by the springs must be the lowest minimum possible. The higher the speed, the lower the dead weight must be ; that was where most of the spring wheels and devices of that description failed, PROFESSOR ROBERT SMITH said it had been a great privilege to be allowed to listen to so interesting and instructive a lecture as they had had that evening. (Hear, hear.) He entirely agreed with what Col. Crompton had said with regard to the necessity for improved roads. The dust problem depended greatly on the condition of the roads. No motor vehicle could be claimed to be perfect until it was
APPROXIMATELY NOISELESS AND wrrnouT VIBRATION,
or violent vibration. The proper way for the engineering profession to attack this problem was to design the heavy vehicles of five and six tons; then to go on from that comparatively easy problem to the more difficult one of vans and omnibuses, and from that to the extremely difficult problem of designing highspeed pleasure vehicles. He strongly suspected that the comparison between steam and internal combustion engines which had been given by the lecturer was approximately correct. The question of vibration was the most important of all, arid he did not think that the solution of that part of the problem could be taken wholly apart from the question of driving by explosion motors. They could not get a quiet engine so long as they adhered to explosive driving. Besides, engines driven ey explosion were much more difficult to balance properly from a mechanical point of view than engines driven by steam. The question of vibration again had a great deal to do with the cylinders. He did not believe that they could get a really good balance with less than four cylinders, but he saw no mechanical necessity for more. The great difficulty with regard to heavy traction wheels lay in the strength of the material of which the surface of the road was composed.
THE HON. C. S. ROLLS said he was interested as an ainatcur in steam vehicles as well as petrol vehicles. The advantage of steam over petrol was in many respects very great. Col. Crompton had referred to the Brayton engine. It had always struck him that it was a great pity they had not seen more of that system. He could not help thinking that.in course of time they would get some sort of steam turbine, which was so successful in ships, applicable to cars. Col. Crompton had remarked that steam was holding its own for heavy vehicles. The reason of that was the enormous difficulties of
CLUTCHES AND SPEED-CHANGING GEARS 'to stand the very great strains of starting and stopping heavy vehicles; but the lighter types were in many cases changing over to petrol. Steam buses had not, so far, been so successful as the petrol ones. He did, not think the comparison which Col. Crompton had drawn of the cost of running a petrol vehicle as against a steam vehicle was a fair one. It was obvious that a six-cylinder engine must have more parts than a four-cylinder engine, but by increasing the cylinders they were enabled to decrease the complication in, the gearing and lessen the necessity of changing gear, which compensated for the increase in the number of parts. Moreover, although they had more parts, they had in a six-cylinder engine six strings to their bow instead of four. Ile felt that the time would come when vehicles with internal-combustion engines would be able to run by the use of the same fuel as was used, for instance, for the White steam vehicles—a kind of benzoline. In conclusion, Mr. Rolls paid a tribute to the splendid services which Col. Crompton had rendered in the solution of these problems. (Applause.) Mr. FREDERIC COLEMAN said that the makers of internal-combustion cars in America were rapidly coming to the front. Only the other day he received news of a reliability trial in California, over a mountain pass and very heavy roads, in which an 18h.p. White steamer and a 40h.p. Packard petrol vehicle came through with perfect records. The judges had nothing to choose between the two systems until the fuel was measured, and then it was found that the White steamer had used less fuel. A friend of his had been trying for some time to find out how many parts he had in his four-cylinder engine, and he was trying still. (Laughter.) It would not take him (the speaker) any time to find out how many parts he had on his steam machine. He contended that there was much in the steam vehicle that was worthy of notice. They owed Col. Crompton thanks for having the nerve to tell a large number of people interested in the manufacture of petrol vehicles that, in his opinion, steam vehicles had certain advantages.
[The discussion was continued last night, and we will continue our report next week.—ED.1