Plan Received With Enthusiasm
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IT was meet that the first speaker to follow should be V. at well-known road-transport engineer, Captain J. B. • Walton. Ile said the fact that so many engineers in the operating industry felt the need to express their views in some form or other must be a great satisfaction to Mr. • Mackenzie _limner, who, by his personal effort and the loan of the columns of his paper to this object, had been of such service to all of them.
No one can dispute that the fleet engineer must know more about any manufacturer's vehicle than the maker himself can ever know, and in the past it has been the former's misfortune that, haying such sound ideas as to what should or should not be done, he has been completely inarticulate. To-day we have reached a stage in the' tdustry and Government control where there is a plethora of institu, tions, organizations and committees. Many of them arc advising the Government, and a lot are advising one another. Some of us have been appointed technical advisers to a number of these bodies, and he found himself in considerable difficulty in giving advice and taking a somewhat heavy responsibility concerning recommendations which he might make without the support of that section of the industry represented by maintenance engineers. He had to express what were virtually his own views, in the pious hope that they may be the views of others. He, therefore, welcomed very much this gathering of operating engineers of road transport.
Road transport is obviously going to matter immensely in the future, and a trcrtiendous responsibility will deVolve on the fleet engineer, bocause it is through him that the wheels go round. Therefore, any earnings there may be arc directly his responsibility.
In evolving Use and Construction Orders, recoramencla lions to the manufacturers, to the Institution of Automobile Engineers, and others, it was essential that there should he some articulate Method of expressing the engineers' views, and he could think of no better means than this proposed Institute. There are many possibilities for it, and he could envisage that the knowledge at its command will accrue through the years; and that it will build itself into 'something which the profession of the road engineer merits, and one which can attract, and should attract, the youth and ingenuity of this country.
To-day, we arc afforded an immense opportunity of striking a note which will sound both loud and long. Institutions will come and go, but he was sure -that the sincerity with which all present had accepted this idea of a body: to represent their vast fund of experience and technical knowledge tvould result in its survival and an honoured place in our national industries.,
He was very much in agreement with all the chairman's views, and hoped that the committee would develop further ideas which would make this body so acceptable that its inception and further progress would be insisted upon.
Next came the voice of the manufacturers, as represented by Mr. Ewart Guy. He said he 'thought that all that is necessary from the point -Of view of the problem, as between operator and manufacturer, had already been said:. There is an objective and an object, and it was true to say that those who read " The Commercial Motor " know, perfectly • well that the views of the makers have been aired in this during the past 12 months. He quoted a letter received by the chairman: " There is no doubt that the operator has been the laboratory for quite a number of manufacturers."
If the Institute is to do good, which all hoped it would, he would suggest that it might have a slogan, and he scribbled down three words. These were: Constitution and all that it means; Unification and Representation.
It is not always 'easy ffir the manufacturer to say what he thinks, for reasons which are obvious. It is equally difficult for the operator, and he proposed that both should put their cards on the table, and, with better vehicles and reduced cost of operation, they could put the British manufacturer and user on the map for all time.
During 30 years in the industry, latterly in the commercial-vehicle field, he had always thought it remarkable that this most important industry, one .of the .biggest employers. of labour and providers of funds, had not been • able to get together, and it has taken Mr. Mackenzie Junner and his very valuable technical paper, with its topical interest, to do this. On a previous occasion, last year, the same journal organized another. function of a " get-together " nature at which the number present was 500. To-day, again, this room is packed, and if that be not 5a sincere tribute to Mr. Mackenzie Junner and Captain Walton as to the 'importance of the problem which is before those present, then he had come to a wrong conclusion. Private interests were not really important at this juncture. Let us get down to brass tacks and we can beat the world,
As representative of materials of construction, Mr. E. J.
Groom, Editor of " Light Metals," was the next speaker. He said: In the post-war •age fleet operators and maintenance engineers, like manufacturers, will be faced with the possibility of working with, or on, and choosing from, a bewildering mass of raw materials. We have all heard of the light-metal age which is coming, or the plastics age which is• to follow the end of the war; in. point of fact, those of us who have had experience of industry know that the age to come will be one characterized by a balancing process taking place between a whole group of raw materials. Our problem will come in selecting the right material for the right job: Co-operation is essential here, and the proposed Institute will provide the 'opportunity of • putting the necessary team work into effect. Furthermore, toothe suppliers and manufacturers of all of these different raw materials we shall be able td take our problems as a body, and not, as so often in the past, as individeals who stood little chance of making their wishes heard. Moreover, producers and' manufacturers, too, • can come to us as a representative body and state and formulate their plans, with the assurance that they are at least satisfying the majority.
Mr. Boyd Bowman, secretary, National Conference of Clearing Houses, began by wishing the proposed Institute a very long, useful and, above all, energetic life. He suggested that the committee might even now, begin to consider whether the Institute need be a body concerned with only one form of transport. Other means for transport and other engineers might wish to enter and give a louder voice to that unity which had been mentioned. He suggested as its motto " Ferveat opus," which might well be translated, " Let the job go with a swing." He pointed out that having gone so far with the proposal, there was as yet no warrant for proceeding further, and it was important to ascertain whether those present wished such an Institute to •be formed. The chairnian then put this question to the meeting, and itwas unanimously agreed " that the wak of organizing the proposed Institute should be proceeded with.
Members of Committee State Their Views Individually Following this, the chairman introduced individually those potential members who had agreed to serve on tho• organizing committee, if elected, and he asked each to say . a few words. The following is a resume of their remarks:— Mr. L. B. Andrews said he felt that the proposed Institute would fill a long-felt gap which was not covered by other bodies. It would give members an opportunity of pooling their knowledge and experience, and of expressing their views to the manufacturers as to the types of vehicle they want. It would accumulate a great fund of knowledge, and the results of practical experience, which would be available to other operators. He hoped the project would
• be a great success, and -would do his utmost to further
its interests. • Mr. H. G. Beasley considered he would be a very unworthy representative of the transport profession if words
of tribute conld not be found to express what he and all present would agree was the fulfilment of a long-felt want, to permit the pooling of brains, the co-ordination of .activities, 'and what he was sure would be a general raising of the status of all individuals employed in the industry.
The most desirable object was the opportunity of debating the design and merits of various types of vehicle, with the ultimate object of arriving at better standardization, which is such anaasset to road-transport engineers.
He expressed the opinion that the gathering would be held in future years to be one of the high lights of the transport world and that future generations would reverence the chairman for the great part he had taken in promoting the interests of the industry.
Original Idea Expanded to ' Something of Great Interest Mr. C. Courtney Cramp remarked that when the embryo suggestion was made that 'operators should have a committee to co-ordinate their views in order to contact manufacturers, he realized that this scheme had a certain limited function, .but now that we had 'got on to the larger phase of an Institute, with what might be termed a leaning towards the furtherance of educational principles and the status of men in the profession, then he began to take considerably more interest than previously. Status was one of the prime, factors that the body should set out to achieve, in order to allay the impression that the roadtransport engineer is merely a man who walks about in overalls with a spanner in his pocket.
The educational side must be important, because in any occupation the student of to-day is the executive of to-morrow. There mast be a good background for those young people who have an object in their lives ancl.intend .to reach the top.
No one in the Empire or throughout the country could say that heknew so much that he cou:d not gain by contact with his fellows. An Institute starting out with those objects will enjoy rapid. progress.
Mr. A. H. Dack said the possibilities would be extraordinary and far-reaching.' If organized on the basis outlined, transport engineers must benefit. All of us had seen what happens when unity is lacking. Ife would be willing to help it on its way.
Mr. F. Davenport considered the formation of the Institute was long overdue. It would be of great value to the transport industry and manufacturers alike. If taken in the right spirit by all, it should give the 'makers valuable assistance in the planning of their models to provide users with better standardization and good service for their money.
Mr. M. Downs congratulated the chairman on the way he had organized, arranged, and was endeavouring to form the Institute. The speaker represented the Association of Municipal Transport Engineers, which had been dawdling along and had not got into its stride. When the members first heard of the proposed Institute it was decided that they might enter and see if they could not do a little better. .
He had been in the motor business for 40 xears, had served his time as an engineer, and had always considered that the work of the average fleet engineer was rather a rag-time business, with nothing cut and dried. The engineer in tbe next borough might have certain spare parts which would keep your own transport going, but, unfortunately, there was no contact. The Association would wholeheartedly support the new body, which, he thought, would be a real factor in the transport industry.
Mr. F. E. Dryden said the presence of so many engineer left him in no doubt as to what the future of the proposition would be. Once the committee was formed it could get on with the job. • Mr. W. H. Lister remarked that the chief object to attain was to place road-transport engineering in its right sphere as a profession. We should try to keep the Institute to practical engineers and in a form which would promote their knowledge and be a body recognized as in the front rank. He hoped those present would do all they could to assist in attaining that goal:
Mr. A. H Pavis was in entire agreement with those who had so ably put forward a ease for something which. fm inany.yearsa he had -believed to be Most necessary. Individuals who went to manufacturers and Ministries generally found that when they asked for something they 'received
the reply: " Yes, but so-and-so does not want that." What is required is to go forward with a considered opinion, the best for the majority. The only way of getting this was through such an Institute as that contemplated, Mr. 0 E Pepler had in mind that it is not always the engineer who knows the whole of the difficulties in the workshop. In some of the larger concerns these men live within four walls and do not know what the fellows on the other side are doing The Institute would provide an opportunity of lowering those walls and tackling the same job in the same way. He had Come in at the tail end, when much of the hard work had been done, but, within the limits of his time, there was nothing he would not do to further the efforts being made.
Capt Carlton F. Roberts thought th.at the ground had been well covered by the large number present from all parts, and that one of the chief tasks of the committee would he to get sub-committees started up in other areas. Those present should he encouraged to.go forward after their return to their home -towns. Everyone knew that much necessary information, is obtainable only from other people. He had been fortunate in finding those who would give him good advice, and he hoped he would continue to he so. It did seem, however,' that, with an Institute as suggested, it should be easier to make contacts and obtain advice. One of the early tasks should he to make contact . with our American friends in this country and obtain some interchange of views on matters Which will he helpful to everybody.
Mr. P Smyth found himself in complete agreement with all that had been said, and he could say only that he was prepared to help in whatever way he could.
Engineering and Maintenance Side Would Now Have Representation Mr. J. Vincent said that there remained little to add.
For a number of years he felt that once this co-operative view was put forward it would be successful and get into being in.a very short time. Now, it certainly looked as if it would The operating side had been well catered for for some years N ?w, if the engineering and maintenance side had its-own body, this would be of great value to the industry and have immense possibilities. How progress could have reached this present stage without the help of Mr. Mackenzie Junner, he did not know.
Mr. R. T. Smith also spoke, although pressure of work prevents him, at present, from joining the committee. He said that he had certain specific and significant views on the formation of this Institute. Since the commencement of the idea, put over by his good friend Mr. Mackenzie Junner. he had watched the growth of thought, had seen with great interest the Press notices and letters in " The Commercial Motor,'' and in a small Way had contributed to the idea He was 100 per cent, sold to it, as appeared to be all in the room.
One thing he had not heard about Was the part the chairman, would play. He thought this should be established, as they were all wanting him to continue to give to this Institute the same enthusiasm as he had shown in its formation.
Personally, he thought the makers would treat the new Institute with much enthusiasm. He, as an operator and engineer, could well understand that often they cannot get to know what is really required because of the differences of opinion between operators. One tells a maker one thing, and another something else. Consequently, he does not know where he is. Now it will be possible for him to go _to a body which will know what it wants.
There is a good deal of opposition to the formation of this proposed Institute. We have others, for instance, the Institution of. Automobile Engineers, of which he was a member. They say they have in their organizations what we are clamouring for. He claimed that they had not. Little help was received beyond a pamphlet once a month, and the new Institute should not fall into the same trap. It should form a kind of " brains trust:: to .receive and answer questions with the help of other qualified members. It would also be splendid to have a library of information from manufacturers.
Capt. J B. Walton then said that it would be a function of the committee, when appointed, to elect a chairman, and he could suggest no better name than that of Mr. Mackenzie Junner, who had the interests of the project at heart, He himself had reconsidered his previous refusal to join, and said that he would feel himself privileged to serve on the committee.
Mr. M. C. Vickers asked for a point to be remembered in connection with people coming from far-distant places. He was an engineer from Newcastle, and would give his word straightaway that he would be willing to .endeavour to arrange a meeting upthere, because he was convinced that this was the only way in which it would be possible to look after the younger generation.
He then put forward the resolution that the following should be elected as .the organizing committee of the proposed InStitute of Road Transport Engineers:—Messrs.
B. Andrews (Callenders Cable and Construction Co., Ltd.)1. H. G. Beasley (Mack's Hauliers, Ltd.); C. Courtney Cramp (president, Industrial Transport Association); A. H. Dack (Union Cartage Co., Ltd.); F. Davenport (Convoys, Ltd.); M. Downs (chairman, Association of Municipal Transport Engineers); F. E. Dryden (H, and G. Simorids, Ltd.); G. Mackenzie Junner (Editor, " The Commercial Motor "); W. H. Lister (Oxo, Ltd.); A. H. Pavis (Cement Marketing Co., Ltd.); 0 E. Pepler (Pickfords, Ltd.); Capt. Carlton F. Roberts (Transport Services, Ltd.); Messrs. P. Smyth (Asiatic Petroleum Co., Ltd.); J. H. Vincent (London Carriers, Ltd.); Capt. J. B. Walton (S.P.D., Ltd.). This was seconded by Mr. G. S. Lowe and passed unanimously.
Mr. E. Scott then suggested that several members who had travelled so many miles, from the north, south, east and west, should be co-opted to the committee, because there is no doubt that, in coming such a long way, they had showed great enthusiasm. Incidentally, they had been given the opportunity of listening to some very fine speeches. There was, for example, the engineer of a very. large fleet in Manchester, who would take back with him the gooi, will of the meeting.
Mr, W. Bolton moved that the committee should consist of 25 members, includinec' those from the provinces. This was seconded by Mr. C. H. Davidson and received unanimous approval.
A vote of thanks to the chairman was moved by Capt. E. W. Brown, R:E.M.E., who said that all must thank Mr. Mackenzie Junner for his efforts and those of his paper to bring the engineers together. Personally, as a practical engineer of public works as well as transport, he was all for the proposed Institute. In transport, where improvisation is often a prime consideration, there are practical engineers whose parents were not able to put them to the bast schools, but they have the brains and the opportunity of learning a lot. In fdct, they can frequently tell a manufacturer where his design is wanting. It is the man who is actually doing the work and maintaining the vehicles who comes across the snags in design. They were all in agreemeot with the chairman that it would be a fine thing for the trade, possibly during the war, but certainly in the post-war days. The vote was seconded by W/Cdr. W. V. Sherwell, who said that he felt that he was speaking on behalf of everyone when he said that they came into the room a few hours before as individuals, but were going to leave it feeling that they were part of a body which had been formed during the afternoon. This was through the work of Mr. Mackenzie Junner prior to this meeting and by his able-chairmanship.
Valuable Contribution to Operating and Manufacturing Sections Mr. Norman Pollock. of Shammell Lorries, Ltd., added that he thought the objects of the proposed Institute were very good. Handled properly, it should constitute a most valuable contribution to the road-transport industry, both from the manufacturers' and operators' points of view. He also wished to pay tribute to the chairman for the reallyherculean work he had put into this matter over the past 18 months, and for bringing it so far as he had. He wished the new body every success.
The chairman expressed his deep appreciation of the thanks accorded to him. .
Finally, Mr. P Smyth, of the Asiatic Petroleum Co., Ltd., said that tnany friends of the road-transport industry were at present in the Services.. He thought it should be clearly .understood by all that when they were free to participate in the work of the Institute they should be cordially invited to do so. He put this as a motion, which was seconded by Mr. .C. Courtney Cramp, and carried unanitmusly.