Who Should Sell Commercial Motor Vehicles?
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Report (continued from page 300) of a Discussion in London.
[The opening speeches at the meeting of the Agents Section, Ltd., on the 16tli inst., were reported isr our last issue. Mr. A. .11. Athey presided.]
The meeting then joined in the debate, and Mr. Macfarlane was the first speaker. He had no doubt that as the commercial-car business increased direct trading between the user and producer would cease, the magnitude of the business making it impossible.
Mr. Watson (Dublin) spoke of the problem as it affected Ireland. He believed with Mr. Philpott that the men who handled pleasure vehicles had not the salesmen nor the facilities for handling heavy coins mercial vehicles, at any rate in Ireland. The mechanic who repaired the pleasure car was net the mechanic who would be. able to repair the commercial vehicle, which was not by any means a " kid-glove job." When a heavy vehicle came into a garage it belonged to a man who perhaps needed it to earn his living, and he would want. it out again at the shortest possible moment. In Ireland there were no manufacturers of commercial vehicles, and the consequence was that the user in Ireland buying from the English manufacturer was placed in a very unsatisfactory position. He was hound, when repairs were necessary, to take his vehicle to a local garage, where the men were not interested in the car, and whose chief object was to make the most they could out of the job. The result was the user paid heavily for repairs which were not always satisfactory. Therefore he claimed that for Ireland special commercial-vehicle agents (who might at the same time be agents handling pleasure vehicles also) were necessary, but first of all they must be commercial-vehicle agents.
Mr. Graham Reece (Liverpool) said he was a carriage builder some years ago and he attempted to combine the private carriage trade and the commercial trade, but found it impossible. At all events, it was impossible in the same premises, and so in connection with motor vehicles the combination could only be effective if one had two separate premises. He had in his private-car trade an excellent staff of salesmen but he would no more think of sending them out in connection with the sale of a commercial vehicle than he would think of flying. The first questions put to them on commercial ears would "floor "them. It was all a matter of X s. d. on the commercial side, and questions of mileage and petrol consumption. The only way a private-car agent could deal with the commercial-car business would be by setting up a separate establishment, with separate salesmen, and altogether different material.
Mr, Geo. F. Heath (Birmingham) said he real)/ could not nee the difference between commercial vehicles and pleasure vehicles as a business proposition, providing the business were properly handled. He quite agreed that perhaps the matter would be better handled if the agent. had two separate departments. The difficulties suggested were unaccountable to the speaker. Certainly if the pleasn re-vehicle agent went to the commercial-motor manufacturer and offered. a contract for a number of vehicles and undertook to take a demonstration vehicle he would get every attention, and there would he not the slightest difficulty about securing the agency. And seeing that now the majority of the pleasure-vehicle makers also produced commercial types, the speaker could see no reason for any difficulty to arise. The writer of the letter quoted by Mr. Duncan was like a good many agents: lie waited for the business to come round to him. He felt sure if nleasure-vehiele agents made a. move in the commercial-vehfele direction the makers would supnort them, but how could the agent exreet the manufacturer to deal through him when he (the
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agent) took not the slightest interest in the cars, and would not go out of his way to help the manufacturer who was, in the opinion of the speaker, entitled to deal direct unless agents could place before him a sound .preposition. tie was convinced that the pleasure-car agent could handle the commercial business; it meant dealing with a little heavier stuff but it was all in the same line and the fact that the pleasure-ear agent had access to all his motor-using customers helped considerably. Half his customers used pleasure vehicles, and he had found it an easy matter to get into the commercial business. He had been at the latter for a couple of years and he had "made good." He could not understand why agents were not more alive to the fact.
Mr Sturmey recalled the time when the early motor manufacturers thought it would be hest to try and sell their productions through coachbuilders, and said they would remember the reception the suggestion got. The opposition was immense and the carriage trade would have nothing to do with the cars. The speaker said he was about as early as anyone to build commercial vehicles and at once it was considered that the right people to handle this trade were the established motor agents who had already connections, and were looked upon in their respective districts as "the motor-men." But when the motor trade was approached it was found that although the motor trade was not quite so bad as the coach trade, it had no interest in the commercial vehicle at all, and would not help. The commercial-motor makers at the time thought they were going to get the same sort of support as was afforded limousine and touring-car makers but they did not get one agent to take a lorry. Undoubtedly in the abstract the established motorcar dealer should be the right man to deal with the commercial trade as well as the touring-car trade ; and the speaker quite agreed that the agent must have a separate branch if he were to handle the commercial class as a whole including the biggest cars. The ordinary touring-car agent could handle the light van class without having a separate department or separate garage, but not the three, four or five-tonners. There was one thing essential, and that was the men who were to handle the commercial-car trade would need to obtain a good grasp of the commercial features of the trade. The salesman would have to be able to argue convincingly that the purchaser would save money by adopting self-propelled vehicles, and he would have to he able to show the economy of substituting motors for horses. Mr. W. Scott interjected the remark that it had struck him that the same kind of liar" who could tell the mileage the purchaser would get out of the touring car would be also able to tell the same tale as regards the commercial car. (Laughter.)
Mr. Cole said he could find nothing in Mr. Duncan's speech which he could agree with and uni•ortunately only one thing in Mr. Philpott's speech he agreed with. That point was that the lack of interest. of agents was the principal difficulty. He did not think lack of capital ever checked the sale of a commercial car, for he always found manufacturers prepared to make no the deficiency. Personally he had no doubts as to the capability of pleasure-car agents to handle the commercial-vehicle trade. The speaker claimed that in the early days the makers were forced to go direct to the user for it was only within the last year or two that they had found any reasonable number of agents prepared to push the commercial car properly and handle it on the correct lines. In his experience lie knew quite a number of pleasure-car garages fully equipped to deal with even the heavier vehicles, and it would take very little to equip a garage to deal with an industrial vehicle trade. As for salesmen: he was a pleasure-car salesman once, and after a week or so of studying catalogues, examining one or two chassis and talking to one or two mechanics he got to know sufficient of the commercial car to take up that branch
Mr. Powell (Hiimber) held that it would be impossible to give either a direct affirmative or a direct negative vote on the proposition under discussion, for the method of sale of cars depended upon circumstances. He might put it in this way: in a large town, like London, say, it paid to specialize it paid a man to make himself extra efficient in the branch of business or profession he took up ; it paid his customer better too. But in a smaller town, though still large town, to specialize did not pay so well. Then in a still smaller town there would be still more grouping of pursuits, while in a village they would get one person in charge of the "Emporium" dealing in all manner of things. Applying that argument to the sale of commercial vehicles, he would say that it paid better in London or any large town for such vehicles to be handled by a man who did nothing else. But to do that in a small village would be a manifest absurdity. Therefore they had to be guided by circumstances. With regard to direct dealings he had to say that no firm encouraged its agents more or gave fairer discount than the one he was connected with. Yet they (the firm) could not be told that they must not in any circumstances deal directly with a perchaser. What happened at the present time with regard to supplying the War Office? Could that be done through an agent Again with regard to their supply of 300 motorcycles for Russia ; would the agents compel the firm to turn that over to the dealer? While it had to be recognized that manufacturers must as a general rule deal with wholesale houses, when it came to large orders such as commercial vehicles there had to be exceptions to the rule.
Mr. S. Norris (Manchester) agreed that the question depended upon circumstances and that it was impossible to say that all business must be done through an agent and he spoke as an agent. He defended the attitude of the coachbuilders in the old days, pointing ouf—their point of view in those times and to the fact that motors were not then the reliable machines they were to-day. Since the early days coachlouiklers had taken un agencies ; sometimes with success, sometimes not. He went on to assert that the repairer of a pleasure car could undertake the repair of a commercial vehicle •, in fact it seemed to 'him that the latter would be the easier task to perform satisfactorily. With regard to questions which might arise in selling cars, the particulars as to fuel consumption, the mileage, etc., could be gained more Or less accurately from books, for these were no secrets. Once those figures were obtained, a man, whether he were master of the business or not, could give the required particulars and sell a ear.
Mr. Mackie (Willys Overland) suggested that the Position was that it was better for the motor manufacturer to sell a thousand commercial cars through agents, than to sell a hundred and save the agent's commission. As to the " big " man not caring to des1 with a local agent, all he could say was that he did not mind purchasing his pleasure ear through the local agent, so why should he object to dealing threeeh the same channel for his commercial vehicle? Why some users dealt direct with the manufacturer was because the abuse of giving discount to the user arose: and that was the first difficulty to overcome. If no discounts were allowed the user there would be no reason against going to the local agent. However, if this business were to be handled by the agents, the latter would have to be willing to learn and to show interest in the business. Mr. T. Garner (Manchester) complained that his experience with commercial motors had not been very fruitful. He had tried to get terms from commercialvehicle manufacturers, but when a buyer could get as good terms from the manufacturer as he (the speaker) could, he did not think the business was worth taking up. in a place like Manchester manufacturers went direct to the public and there was no chance for the agent. A good deal was doubtless due to a misunderstanding between manufacturers and agents. Mr. O'Reilly contributed to the humour of the evening, and at the close of a witty speech declared that nothing he had heard had convinced him that the man who could make a success of selling pleasure vehicles could not do the same with regard to the commercial type. Instone (Daimler Cu.) thought it probably true that agents, or some of them, were quite well qualified to handle commercial vehicles, or if not, would become qualified in the. course of time, . On the other side was the question whether the large buyer would deal with the agent at all. He was bound to say that so far is his experience went it was a very moot point. Rightly or wrongly, the purchaser would go to the manufacturer, and to him looked for assistance. Certainly until userswere educated up to the point when they would look to the local agent for assistance, and when the local agent could be held responsible to render that assistance, the users would go direct to the manufacturers. In the circumstances he thought the manufacturer was right in considering whether it would be advantageous to protect the interests of agents when the agent was apparently unable to effect that large class of business the manufacturer was looking for. It waS up to the agents to see that that condition of affairs was altered. As things existed to-day, he (the speaker) personally would not be inclined, he was not inclined, to vote for the resolution as it stood.
Philpott and Mr. Duncan having replied, and the Chairman having summed up the arguments for and against in a characteristically witty speech, a vote was taken, resulting in the adoption of the resolution, as proposed by Mr. Duncan, by 24 votes to 9. A vote of thanks to the Chairman closed the debate. Thus has the case for the agent once again been ventilated, and in a measure advanced.
An Interesting Alldays Conversion.
We publish an interesting illustration showing a conversion of an Alldays pleasure-car chassis. It was masquerading as a full-blown commercial motor in Newport, Pena The owner is a Cardigan fruit dealer, and he finds the present adaptation much more useful than his former horse-drawn van. It does a round of villages within a radius of 10 miles of Cardigan, and generally carries a load of 8 cwt. of fruit.