n international flavour for 650 delegates at CM'S third conference, on September 22

30th September 1966, Page 88

30th September 1966

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Page 88, 30th September 1966 — n international flavour for 650 delegates at CM'S third conference, on September 22

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Keywords : Engineering Vehicles, Semi-trailer Truck, Tractor, Truck Driver, Mr. T, Bus, Containerization, Truck, Salter Report

NELEGATES and speakers at the third Fleet Management Conference, organized by COMMERCIAL MOTOR and held at London Hilton last Thursday, were welcomed by the chairman

■ rd Chesham. Referring to the international flavour of this ar's conference he said: "We have for the first time two speakers im the Continent, Mr. E. van der Hall from Holland and Dr. A. Muller from West Germany". Lord Chesham stressed the portance of the aspect of international transport and the free w of our goods on the Continent.

This international theme was maintained by Mr. John Davies, ector-general of the Confederation of British Industry. loving material from one part of the earth to another—here is

whole activity of man." This, Mr. Davies pointed out to nference, was a quotation from a French philosopher which d warmed the hearts of transport men for centuries. Mr. Davies essed that this activity of man was now passing through a period unprecedented change.

Returning to the international theme, Mr. Davies said that 31 considered there were many good reasons for an early union th Europe. "Perhaps none is more important in the immediate lire than that concerning transport policy. Hitherto, little 3gress has been made in the Common Market on this score t certainly within the next year or two ideas will be developed set the framework within which will evolve the great upsurge of -Ai things as containerization, airfreight and pipelines, not to !ak of the filling in of the traditional media—railways, roads, rts, canals, coastal and perhaps oceangoing shipping—into that =work. What a tragedy," he concluded, "it would be if itam n and her partners in EFTA were not parties to the mulation of those ideas."

)WARDS EUROPEAN INTEGRATION?

4OLLOWING the opening of the conference by Mr. John I

Davies, Lord Chesham asked Dr. A. 1;tiallaub, president of

International Road Federation, to say a few words to delegates this body was itself concurrently holding a conference in ndon attended by 3,000 delegates from over 100 countries. Dr. Raafiaub stressed that he saw a great need for integration transport in Europe. At present formalities hindered movements passengers and goods from one country to another but modern hnical progress could be used to facilitate such movements.

The European pipeline system was an example of real integration.

The powerful economic position of the United States was not entirely based on its mineral resources. These were supported by an integrated and low-cost transport system. Europe must follow the same pattern and get its transport costs down.

The opening paper of the conference was presented by Sir John Hunter, chairman of the Central Training Council, on the impact on road transport of the Industrial Training Act. In summarizing his paper, Sir John emphasized that the speed, efficiency and reliability of our road transport services were absolutely vital to our economic wellbeing. This explained why the Minister of Labour had been anxious to establish an industrial training board for the road transport industry.

Coming within a week of the official announcement of the appointment of The members of the Road Transport Industry Training Board it was an especially topical subject and subsequent discussion following Sir John's paper was indicative of the current interest in training.

The exclusion of the C-licence operator from the Transport Training Board was the subject of the first question put by Mr. R. P. Block, management consultant. He asked how the training needs of the C-licence operator were going to be met and if there would not be excessive splintering of training facilities by such exclusions because of the high fragmentation of the transport industry.

Sir John said he considered such problems as those raised by Mr. Block were entirely technical ones peculiar to the road transport industry and it would be for its own training board to resolve them.

Office and management staff were brought into the picture by the next question. Mr. G. A. Miles, transport manager, Ruberoid Co., Ltd., asked whether in view of the levy to be paid by the industry, training expenses incurred by staff attending, for example, evening classes could be reimbursed by the Board.

Sir John said that the answer was almost certainly yes, but here again it would be for the Board concerned to determine which training scheme should be supported.

Why was the technical press not represented on the Road Transport Industry Training. Board? This was the gist of a question posed by Mr. G. McKenzie Junner, a former editor of COMMERCIAL MOTOR. Mr. Junner said that from his long experience in technical journalism he knew that the technical press had sponsored and supported many trade associations and training institutions. The press had extensive knowledge and experience of the industry it served and it seemed strange to him that such knowledge was not being put to good use by having a representative of the technical press on the training board.

The Industrial Training Act, Sir John replied, did require equal representation of employer and employee interests together with independent educational representation. But he saw no reason in principle why the technical press should not be represented, particularly if the person chosen was also an expert on training.

The danger of too much, rather than too little, training was raised by Mr. P. A. Thompson, transport controller, Rank Organisation Ltd. He suggested that the creation of the Board could lead to an over-emphasis of the value of training with too much being attempted. Up till now each industrial organization had determined its training requirements in relation to their value and likely profitability.

But from now on every one would pay into a central kitty with no commercial incentive. Mr. Thompson asked what remit a board had to operate on a commercial basis. If the board spent too much money "How do we get them out?"

No board had been "got out" yet, Sir John humorously replied. But, in serious vein, he emphasized that the Board was not going to do any training itself and the expenditure on its own secretariat would be a small percentage of the total levy. Expenditure on training should not be looked upon in the light of what a firm could afford but as an investment. That was the whole object of their exercise. Moreover, the Board would be partly composed of operators' own representatives so that it would be up to them to ensure that the Board was well managed.

The question of approval of existing training facilities was raised by Mr. B. B. Wilson, senior executive, commercial division, British School of Motoring. Sir John confirmed that such approval was already being given by the boards already established and they had been only too glad to encourage the use of existing training facilities where these were appropriate.

The last question returned to the basic theme of the first one, C-licence operation. Mr. B. A. Thompson, director, Transport Liaison Services Ltd., maintained that it was paradoxical that C-licence operators should be excluded from the Road Transport Training Board. It had been suggested that transport operators should help one another in their own area by training on a cooperative basis. But many of those who already had training schemes and could therefore give a lead in such area schemes wer themselves C-licence operators.

In reply, Sir John reaffirmed that the interest of C-licence opera tors would be met under their own industry boards. On the questio of wider representation it was just not possible to have every fact of an industry represented on one board.

HELPED BY ASSOCIATIONS

INTRODUCING his paper "Operator Associations in th Netherlands", Mr. van der Hall said that though road traffi had developed enormously in Holland in the past decade there ha been a recent tendency for capacity and rates to consolidate. Bt international traffic was increasing faster than home road traffi

The Netherlands international road transport organizationNIWO—originally created by road hauliers, had developed ver close liaison with the Government and with many other nationl and international bodies whose interests impinged on road haulag Operating costs vitally affected Dutch hauliers who paid a average of E500 a year in taxation for an artic outfit. Internation: road haulage companies in Holland employed thousands ( vehicles and when used outside the Netherlands they had man taxes or levies to pay.

In Belgium, 6 per cent taxation was levied on mileage operatei France required payment of surtax on deadweight of the vehic and on its loading capacity and hauliers also had to pay tax( included in fuel costs. Germany levied road taxes on bade weight per mile, plus a fuel tax, and in Austria similar taxes wei levied but at twice the German rate. Italy required internation: hauliers to pay road taxes for a minimum of 10 days even if ti vehicle was only in the country for a few hours.

The Dutch operators' associations, said the speaker, ha negotiated concessions with the Ministry of Finance wheret international operators were relieved of home taxes for the dal their vehicles were travelling abroad.

Saturday closing of frontiers to road transport operators w; envisaged in Holland, and if this were enforced only TIR vehicli would be allowed to cross frontiers on Saturdays. This won] greatly inconvenience hauliers who now had their loads Custom cleared on Saturdays for delivery in Holland on Monday, and ti Dutch operators' associations were to petition the Minister to a: for the decision to be cancelled.

Dutch road haulage associations were carrying out studil relating to centres which might be set up for collecting ar istributing on a national groupage basis. Traffic congestion in rims was compelling the building of loading and unloading centres utside the towns for use by road transport, and operators were :presented on committees in discussions with local authorities so lat suitable sites with adequate road links could be developed. 'his was evidence of the value of collective action; no single haulage rm could obtain conditions approaching those which its associaon could obtain for it.

The Dutch road transport operators, said the speaker, could do lot for themselves and their successors by joining and supporting ocational training provided by the operators' association.

There were many ways of losing money in road haulage, such 3 buying the wrong vehicles; ill-using vehicles or failing to maintin them properly; through unrealistic rates; and by succumbing ) intimidation by drivers, who were often better informed of their ghts than the employers were.

As regards UK facilities for international hauliers, the speaker tid there was an obvious dearth of bonded warehouses and ustoms clearance points. This lack was costly to operators and teir only remedy was for them to press their associations for much ore effective action.

At question time, Mr. H. R. Featherstone, national secretary RTA, said he had recently visited the Dutch association concerned ith transport on own account and he felt that in Holland oad transport organizations gave more attention to tangible Lctors relevant to operators whereas in Britain the reverse seemed ■ apply. Was the fault a lack of "association consciousness" in ritain?

Mr. van der Hall said the Dutch and the British people were very fferent. The background of the associations in the two countries, so, had differed. Operators in Holland had had no choice but to Ind together to obtain authorizations from the Goverment for trious operational needs. Broadly, the Dutch associations had had years' experience in providing the information and technical isistance sought by their members, and the British operators' ;sociations, in relation to international traffic, had no more than tree years' experience. It was necessary for British operators I press their associations hard to get more out of them in a totter time.

Mr. J. H. Whitcombe, general manager, Blue Rosette (Transport) td. asked the speaker what part operators' associations in Holland ayed in industrial relations matters. Mr. van der Hall said the mociations were actively concerned in discussions with trade lions and employees and the pros and cons of higher wages and trious productivity aspects were closely considered.

Mr. A. J. Smith, general services manager, Hawker Siddeley viation Ltd., wondered if there would be any saving in taxation on temational operations if trailers were transferred to other prime overs at border points. Mr. van der Hall said this might prove -ofitable on certain groups but in Germany, for example, where x was levied on a loaded-mile basis there would be no advantage.

:ESPONSIBILITY OF MANAGEMENT 'THEN Mr. F. H. Woodward, manager, transport services, flf the Plessey Co. Ltd. introduced his paper, "Fleet aintenance—Past, Present and Future," he stated that he felt e biggest problem of fleet maintenance today was one of attitudes. "These are", he said, "five-fold and are the attitudes of (a) anagement, (b) vehicle manufacturers, (c) vehicle suppliers and :alers, (d) drivers, (e) maintenance staffs."

Mr. Woodward criticized management's attitudes to maintenwe costs: "Management must realize that they and they alone e responsible for the fleets they operate".

The attitude of the vehicle manufacturer was, in Mr. Woodird's opinion, a deterrent to the preplanning programme for placement vehicles. The present delivery schedules causing a ro-year delay might be a suitable atmosphere for the manucturer, "but for the fleet operator it is intolerable," said Mr. 'oodward.

While large operators could get service, sometimes under rssure, Mr. Woodward felt that the small man had to take pot ck. In his experience the manufacturer blamed the dealer for :layed deliveries because in the manufacturer's words "they do not stock". Mr. Woodward suggested, however, that the dealer's attitude was a result of a lack of credit facilities.

Spares shortages were the biggest problem the fleet operator had to face. The 24 Club and the Securicard systems were commendable but were, in Mr. Woodward's opinion, only "creditworthiness certificates". He illustrated the attitude of dealers by relating a personal experience.

"I received a card from a main dealer relating to one of my fleet cars which had been in for an 18,000-mile service. It read, 'We consider this vehicle unsafe without servo assistance . . suggest it be taken out of use until rectified.. . we have no parts available."

"The driver and the maintenance staff," said the speaker, "should be the greatest asset in helping to keep our fleets roadworthy." He felt that it was most important that they should work as a team and that the transport manager could encourage this attitude by refusing to take sides in disputes.

Future legislation would ensure that fleets were maintained in a roadworthy condition. The fleet engineer was the main key to the solution of this problem. This was an opinion which received the wholehearted support of Mr. G. McKenzie Junner later in the discussion.

Mr. Woodward's paper laid great emphasis throughout on the importance of manufacturers. He asked them to give greater consideration to the needs of the operator, the driver and the maintenance staffs. He called on them to supply spares in quantity and timeously and to bring delivery dates to a more realistic period.

The discussion which followed the paper centred on the attitudes of manufacturers and dealers. Mr. K. A. Beresford, joint managing director, Beresford Transport Ltd., agreed with Mr. Woodward that manufacturers could do more than at present. He cited cases where newly delivered vehicles were found to have faulty speedometers or developed steering troubles. "These are vehicles costing £4,000 to L4,500," he said. "The fact that we have a Commercial Motor Show today on our doorstep is a fallacy, our manufacturers want shaking up." Mr. Beresford felt that the present situation offered wide opportunities to foreign vehicle manufacturers.

Mr. Woodward agreed and expressed the hope that the conference would sow seeds which would bear fruit in the future.

Mr. A. J. Smith, director and chief engineer, Cotniner Cars Ltd., came strongly to the defence of the manufacturers. "Whatever our problems," he said, "we are very conscious of our obligations." It was his company's policy and that of other companies to discuss all new projects with vehicle operators. He asked the speaker how far he felt that manufacturers should go, and operators would go to assist manufa,cturers in the production of their vehicles. "What should we be doing to get the very best out of the vehicle which we are producing here?" he asked.

Mr. Woodward told the delegates that he was aware of the preproduction proving period. "But," he said, "it's during service that the trouble begins. Why not invite the user once or twice each year to a working lunch to discuss the problems which he experiences?" he asked. Mr. Woodward considered that cabdesign—instrument panel location—and the provision of a suitable jack were more important than automatic transmission. "To get the best out of the vehicle you must get the best out of the driver—give him a cab he will want to live in." Mr. H. J. Dagg, transport engineer, Schweppes (Home) Ltd., considered that if vehicles were to be maintained in a manner future legislation was likely to demand, operators would be selling "new" vehicles after a life of service. "What do you see the replacement life of fiveand seven-ton vehicles being under this new legislation?" he asked.

Mr. Woodward said he did not consider the life of a vehicle on either time or mileage but on its condition at any time. "The vehicle must be replaced when in your opinion as an operator it is necessary and you must have your opinion as the operator accepted by your board," he said.

Mr. W. J. Pattie, transport co-ordinator, Bardon Hill Quarries (Ellis and Everard) Ltd., commented on the servicing of widely dispersed fleets: "Where you have pockets of vehicles about the country, I feel that you cannot do better than have your servicing carried out by a local dealer." Mr. Woodward agreed. "But," he said, "make sure it is your service which is carried out and not merely that on the service voucher".

Mr. G. Anthony, general manager truck sales, Ray Powell Ltd., rose to defend the dealer. Despite the fact that dealers in some cases carry £100,000 worth of stock, they could be "caught out". He felt that operators could do much to help themselves. He instanced a case where one agent had offered to stock £2,000 of spares for one operator, provided the operator supplied details of his fleet. "The operator had so far failed to do so," he said. Demands for high discounts were, in Mr. Anthony's opinion, strangling after sales service. He felt that operators were in many cases demanding too much.

Mr. Woodward agreed wholeheartedly on this question of discounts. "They are," he said to applause, "the ruination of many operators. Let us have a general acceptance of trade prices, a good after sales service and forget about discounts."

Mr. J. C. Kilburn-Toppin, general sales manager, commercial vehicle division, Ford Motor Co. Ltd, considered that manufacturers were doing a great deal to overcome the problems cited by Mr. Woodward. He agreed that in some cases availability of the product was not all that it might be. This was in many cases because the model was new. Special spares services were available and what a dealer could not supply from stock he could obtain almost immediately from the factory. Concerning vehicle design he pointed out that his company always consulted the user before production of a new model.

Mr. Woodward agreed that the operator was not blameless. "He must go to see the manufacturer, he must get out of his office and take his problem to the manufacturer," he said. "The industry must go forward, operators and manufacturers together. We must encourage this spirit of togetherness."

Mr. W. J. Edbrooke, transport manager, London Co-operative Society Ltd., felt that manufacturers were doing as much as they could with the vehicle legislation pending. "This delay in the production of legislation is causing frustration," he said. "We the operators are ,eventually going to be forced to bring our vehicles up to a standard for which they were never designed."

Mr. R. P. A. F. Williams, Amey Group Ltd., stated that he had enjoyed splendid co-operation from manufacturers. "I3ut, my complaint is that after a great deal of trouble preparing specifications etc., we are given a delivery date which is not kept." He called on dealers to quote realistic delivery dates.

Mr. J. R. Burrill, transport engineer, J. Sainsbury Ltd., felt that all operators should be able to estimate the life of their vehicles and therefore preplan their requirements. He considered that this would assist both manufacturers and dealers to produce and stock realistically. He advised delegates to find out who provided a good after sales service and then "place your order there."

Mr. R. M. Todd (Rank Organisation) was concerned with the shortage of well trained mechanics and Mr. Woodward agreed that this was a real problem and one which would not improve.

"The Ministry of Transport testing stations will poach on the operators," he said, and he called on the MoT not to buy off operators' mechanics with offers of higher wages. He advised operators to improve the conditions of their mechanics.

Mr. J. F. Picking, fleet engineer, Metal Box Co. Ltd., wound up the discussion from the floor by telling the delegates that his company operated a checking scheme which in many ways ran along parallel lines to the Ministry of Transport check. He also stated that they made use of the TRTA inspection scheme.

ECONOMICS OF SAFETY

SAFETY Factors in Commercial Vehicle Design was the subject of the opening paper of the afternoon session of the conference. It was given by Dr.-Ing A. H. Muller, director, commercial vehicle development, Daimler-Benz AG.

He maintained that there were two demands in the development of commercial vehicles to which special attention was being given: performance which should match the economic requirements of the owner; and safety in accordance with the present technical standard. Dr. Muller elaborated on the several considerations which hat to be taken into account but said that the demands of performanc4 and safety meant compromise solutions.

In the first of a series of diagrams he showed how the powe. input requirement varied markedly with relatively small change: in road gradient or average speed; for example, a 38-ton-g.t.w outfit required 330 b.h.p. to maintain 40 m.p.h. on a 2 per cen gradient, but to maintain this on a 5 per cent gradient would cal for 630 b.h.p.—which was clearly uneconomic.

The effect of the gearbox, clutch, axles and suspensions oi safety were then examined by Dr. Milner, as were steering, gear: and brakes. He was surprised, in particular, he said, that there wa. no legal"requirement for low steering forces to case the driver's job In conclusion Dr. Willer summarized the demands of perform ance and safety for commercial vehicles of the future. There wouli be a trend for increased engine power and further improvement ii economic operation and noise characteristics of diesel engines There would also be the need for easily operated clutches (perhap servo-operated), multi-speed mechanical gearboxes and gearboxe with power shifting in addition to improvements in axle and suspen sion systems. A further trend would be a general introduction o power steering and load-dependent brakes with anti-locking devices Mr. F. K. Farquharson, Shell-Mex and BP Ltd., opened th discussion on Dr. Miiller's paper by insisting that an urgent jol manufacturers had to get down to was the development of a gooi retarder because this had an appreciable influence on vehicl performance. But it must be reliable and not too heavy.

From experience in using retarders, Mr. Farquharson stresset the saving resulting from reduced brake maintenance, instancin a six-month period without adjustment to the wheel brakes. Thi subject was of tremendous importance because of the ever highe speeds and heavier loads. Friction brakes, he suggested, woul. soon be near the end of development and would need assistanc from retarders and anti-locking devices. The real problem i articulation was proper braking control.

Referring to axle loadings, Mr. Farquharson said that adhesio was an important factor, particularly in relation to axle loading Mr. T. J. Goldrick, transport manager, H. P. Bulmer and Co. Ltd reminded delegates that Dr. Muller was instrumental in the earl development of the rear-engined bus. It seemed that "its poc relation" the truck was now to receive similar treatment. But he ha reservations as to power steering as recommended by Dr. IvIiille: Drivers tended to take vehicles round corners as fast as possible an the general application of power steering could lead to overturne loads.

Although agreeing that considerable advance had been mad in brake controls, Mr. D. H. Ballard, technical director, Clayto Dewandre Co. Ltd., doubted if a multi-circuit brake syster actually improved braking. Though it improved the safety factc it still all came back in the end to the brakes themselves. Asked whether he thought V engines under 200 h.p. were tferior to in-line engines, Dr. Muller replied that in his experience that was right for a car was not necessarily right for a commercial ehicle. A V engine did no more than an in-line engine. However, Jere were cases where the installation arrangements might nprove or lessen performance. Up to 200 h.p. he did not think we hould be too quick to change our minds about in-line engines. .ut from 200 h.p. to 300 h.p. he suggested V engines had advaniges in space and economy. It was all a question of relative costs.

IVHICH GEARS WEAR?

'NTRODUCING his paper "Future Trends in Transmissions" . Mr. D. Thaw, technical director of Eaton ENV Transmissions td., said that speculation about future trends was inevitably risky Id some of his views might prove wrong. In view of the likelihood F Britain joining the Common Market, European regulations ere, of course, a matter of deep concern to us.

Conventional stepped-ratio transmissions, said Mr. Thaw, ere highly developed, simple, efficient and economical, and evelopments would enable this type of transmission to cater for perational changes in the immediate future. Synchromesh was Jvancing slowly but it was likely to become normal on units for lgines of up to 500 lb: ft. torque capacity. More powerful engines ould demand more robust designs such as that developed by miths.

The speaker referred to the varying wear of gear components n different types of gearboxes. First gear was no longer an nergency ratio and it was no longer satisfactory for engagement ) be by sliding a large gear bodily into mesh. Excessive chipping of gaging ends of teeth was becoming normal in boxes used with mme high-speed engines, and the short time available for gear tanges could lead to clutch engagement before full-width igagement of gears, with harmful effects to gears or "jump out". Mr. Thaw believed that 10-speed transmission was well tablished in vehicle ranges up to 16 tons g.v.w. and 24 tons e.w. Above these weights 12and 15-speed transmissions ould probably gain in popularity, though one alternative was a simpler gearbox with a multi-speed axle. Three-speed axles and the 15-speed gearbox thrived side by side on the North American market, control of the three-speed axle being very simple.

Because of the increased popularity of high-speed diesel engines it was possible to make a virtue of the lower torque generated; hence lighter transmission components could be employed, particularly when power could be applied close to the driving wheels.

Double-reduction axles or the use of hub-reduction units would be needed for high-speed diesel engines because of the need to deal with an engine speed/rear wheels ratio of as much as 80:1. Hub-reduction could be attractive as a smaller differential assembly and smaller axle shafts could be employed.

With higher weights of tractor-trailer combinations adhesion limits were likely to be exceeded with a single driving axle and this would encourage four-wheel drive either by a tandem-drive rear axle layout or a four-wheel drive through front and rear axles of the tractive unit.

Engine developments, said the speaker, could profoundly affect transmission designs; the reciprocating internal combustion engine made its torque curve unsuitable for some gearbox applications. The Perkins differentially supercharged engine used in conjunction with a two-speed gearbox gave a tractive effort close to the ideal.

A gap-bridging device between manual and automatic transmission was needed and this could take the form of an epicyclic transmission coupled to the engine through an hydraulic coupling.

Mr. Thaw thought it inevitable that automatic transmissions would be increasingly used despite their cost and other disadvantages. Hydrostatic transmissions had tended to lag behind hydrokinetic but new types of lightweight high-pressure fuel pumps developed for aircraft could make hydrostatic transmissions appropriate for farm tractors in the near future.

Gas turbines for road vehicles were being actively investigated and military needs for an engine to operate on low-grade fuel could make for a breakthrough. In this event the 30,000 r.p.m. developed by some turbines would need to be reduced to about 3,000 r.p.m., probably by means of intermediate gearing; thereafter a conventional type of transmission could be used.

At question time, Mr. J. R. Burrill (J. Sainsbury Ltd.) asked when operators would be likely to have fully automatic gearboxes on medium-weight vehicles (7 to 12 tons). Mr. Thaw said this was a difficult question as so much depended on fashion and current thinking. He felt before the introduction of semi-automatics by Leyland that it would be 15 years before the era of fully automatic gearboxes; now, he would put it as 6-7 years.

Mr. H. Perring, chief engineer, Ministry of Transport, asked Mr. Thaw for his views on the effects of semi-automatic gearboxes on buses; was this not of value in the possible application to trucks? Mr. Thaw said the experience would obviously be useful. He believed new manufacturing ideas and materials becoming available could reduce the cost of semi-automatic gearboxes; and high production runs would also bring costs down markedly.

Concluding, Mr. Thaw said that some psychologists believed there was a correlation between manual gear shifting and virility! He had no intention of doing a survey of lorry drivers' views on this question! On a more serious note he felt that if operators studied routes and commitments closely most of their requirements could be met by six-speed gearboxes with single-speed axles.

TARIFF SYSTEM WILL GO MR. WILLIAM LANG, a director of the General Steam Navigation Co. Ltd., introduced his paper "The Future Use of Containers" by means of a film entitled, "Countdown for Cargovans." The film dealt with container operation in America and featured the vessels of the American President Line.

"This film," he said, "is a valid reproduction of what will happen here eventually." In the cargovan system, vessels are loaded from the quayside by means of an overhead travelling crane. The minimum of space is required for the operation the crane being so located that it is required to move only 16 ft. to either port or starboard to load a hatch. Hatches are designed to take 108 cargovans under the covers with 18 more on top. Each cargovan has a capacity of 46,000 lb. The containers are tailormade to meet all requirements in America and Europe, being 20 ft. long by 8 ft. wide and 8 ft. high.

Following the film, Mr. Lang invited questions and he pointed out that he spoke as a ship owner and not a road haulier. Mr.

J. S. Darbyshire, general manager, Sutton and Son (St. Helens), Ltd., suggested to Mr. Lang that there were going to be considerable savings to shipping companies as the container concept en larged, despite the fact that there was high capital cost initially.

He asked Mr. Lang if it were envisaged that the saving would be passed on to the haulier. He also asked if the tariff system was likely to be removed and replaced by a fixed charge. Mr. Lang said that he felt sure that the tariff system would disappear. "We carry on a fully containerized service and charge a rate per con tainer. This rate is based on the container displacement," he said.

Mr. D. H. Foulds, director, United Transport Co. Ltd., said he had doubts about the comparative methods of the roll-on/roll-off system and the cargovan type of containerization and he asked Mr. Lang if he could estimate the saving per ton on traffic between New York and London and London and Rotterdam.

Mr. Lang felt that the future developments of container traffic was still obscure but he told the conference that costwise the capi tal in building a roll-on/roll-off vessel at Lim. was double that of a conventional container carrying vessel. Apart from these additional capital costs there were additional operating costs. Mr.

Lang said that shipowners were hoping to reduce costs but told the conference that this would not be in the immediate future. On the question of container maintenance, Dr. C. G. W. Roffey, development engineer, International Nickel Ltd., asked Mr. Lang if he knew what repair costs on containers amounted to. Mr. Lang told him: "We do have substantial maintenance costs which result from handling." He was unable to quote a speci fic figure. Mr. Lang told the delegates that short-sea shippers did not want to own containers. "We do not mind carrying them, but we do not want to own them," he said.

Mr. B. A. Thompson, director, Transport Liaison Services Ltd., asked if there was a central bureau of information dealing with container services. Mr. Lang replied: "There is not. There is an international container bureau, but they are unable to help very much at the moment." To Mr. Thompson's query about who should control containers, Mr. Lang replied: "The short-sea shipper cannot enter this field. There is a case for deep-sea shippers and railways owning and controlling containers but for the smaller man it is not practicable."

TRIPLE BASIS TN his closing remarks the chairman, Lord Chesham, referred to 1 the basis of internationalism, education and training that could be discerned in the conference; it had run right from the financial side through to containers. He suggested that it could be drawn together as a composite subject—consideration of the whole concept of total distribution costs lay in much of what had been saic COMMERCIAL MOTOR, he said, was going to have a `tab: sister", Freight Management, which would be looking at the res costs of physical distribution. It would be the first journal of it kind in the UK. As revealed in CM last week, it would be joinin with COMMERCIAL MOTOR, said Lord Chesham, in the sponsorshi of training courses, the first of which 'would deal with increasin efficiency in C-licence vehicle operation. This year's conference had encouraged the organizers in plannin one for next year; it would not be in London but in the Nortt possibly in Yorkshire, in late September, he revealed. The deputy chairman and managing director of Temple Pres Ltd., Mr. P. K. Jennens, made a presentation to Lord Chesham i appreciation of his services as conference chairman.