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Correspondence.

2nd May 1907, Page 20
2nd May 1907
Page 20
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Page 20, 2nd May 1907 — Correspondence.
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Which of the following most accurately describes the problem?

The Pirating of Patent Mechanisms.

The Editor," THE COMMERCIAI McToR."

Sir :—I have read with much interest your practical article in a recent issue of " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR," viz., " The Pirating of Patented Mechanisms," which I much appreciate. 1, for one (and doubtless many other inventors), thank you for having exposed the true state of things as regards the infringement of patents; for, although one may manage to find the necessary funds to " protect " inventions, -certainly one could not press claims in the Law Courts. Some few years ago, 1 patented a leather tire in combination with rubber, or other resilient material. Up to the year 1903, I do not remember chrome leather being used in combination with rubber. Be that as it may, after that date it became universal. I need hardly say I found myself in the unfortunate position of the " owner of the patent."

I have now invented a " non-skid" device for motor omnibuses. 1 believe it is an original device, from my knowledge of those that are in use, and, until I read your remarks, I had made up my mind to " protect " the design, but now I feel I lack the courage to make the venture.—Yours faithfully, EDWIN E. HILL. Engineer (retired).

Spring-bourne, Brading, Isle of Wight,

26th April, 1907.

Motor Threshers.

The Editir, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir May I in your valuable paper give my opinion as

regards tractors versus steam wagons? Mr. Tritton says in a recent issue (t8th April) :—" The steam wagon is at present on its trial." Perhaps it is—the sort that some firms are making ! But the steam wagon which has been tried and proved a success is, as a good many readers now are aware, the steam wagon built on sound traction-engine lines. It is the only type which will work continuously year after year, render good service, and yet have a small repair bill compared with other types, although some of the other types are working fairly well. I suppose the reason why Mr. Tritton, and other tractor specialists, try to turn us against steam wagons is because they either will not go to the trouble or cannot design a good traction type of wagon. As to the life of a wagon, I /am sure a wagon of this type will last as long as any tractor or traction engine, with decent care. I cannot see where the tractor possesses any startling advantages over the self-contained wagon, except for field work. But as regards road haulage for which both are designed and sold,

think the wagon is far the best. So J would finally advise anyone who is going in for motor haulage to get one of the original traction type, which will be sure to give satisfaction, if bought from the famous Sandbach firm.—Yours

faithfully, HERBERT CONDLIPEE. Smallwood Mill, near Sandbach. 23rd April, 1907.

The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir :—May I, with your permission, say a few words in reply to Messrs. Fosters' comments on motor threshers? Their letter is excellent, as showing us the way how not to do it While not going into the question of the heating surface of a traction engine, I may say that a relative of mine had a combined engine and thresher nearly thirty years ago, and I believe that it is still working well. In a fetter now before me, he says " that it is the handiest and best machine he ever had—just run up to the stack and it is ready for work."

Your correspondent speaks of engine and thresher being bogged in a field. Well, occasionally we do get them in, and occasionally a ditch gets in the way, but we do not leave them there. Speaking of the weight of the tnachines, we will take it that a lorry will weigh 5 tons ; a machine added, 2 tons 'amt.; say, 8 tons, the combined machine. Now the Sh.p. traction engine by itself will weigh, at work, about /2 tons i2cwt., giving more than 4 tons in favour of the motor thresher. Of what use are small tractors for threshing purposes? We, as threshing-machine owners, are in business to make money. Where does the small tractor come in for this purpose? The tendency is that more work will be done, not We do a lot of hauling with our road engine, but, of course, there is not work enough for all at this. I believe we are also wide awake, and would like to have your correspondent's suggestion as to the profitable use of some of these engines during the summer, when not required for threshing. A lorry would deal quickly with small loads, where it is not profitable to send a traction engine and wagons. Naturally, your correspondents speak as tractionengine builders, but what do motor lorry builders say to this?

We have just received a letter from Sonic of our friends in Ireland, who are hoping that a motor thresher is coming, and offering to come over and see it, when, if successful, they will place an order for them at once. As we have had upwards of thirty years' experience in threshing machines and are also running a very large farm (600 acres) we can speak from both sides of the matter.—Yours faith fully, ALFRED HALL AND SON. Ringstead, King's Lynn, April 22nd, 1907.

Loitering Stage Carriages.

The Editor," THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir :—Referring to your Editorial on " Loitering Stage Carriages," I fancy I can put you at the root of the matter at once. It is the almost universal practice of the motorbus conductors to " have a bit of back," as they call it, in order that they shall not be at the bottom of the takings list ; and it will continue to remain so, as long as the operating companies penalise the men for low takings. On some routes, particularly the No. 5 route of the " Vanguard " Company, the conductors have brought the practice almost to a fine art, keeping the car waiting on the point until the one behind comes in sight; then going on and repeating the process at the next corner. It is an absolute curse, both to passengers and drivers alike. The passengers' point of view is obvious : he goes by motorbus for speed, and finds that, whilst the motorbus passes the horsebus on the run, the horse bus catches him up at the points, and very often gets to the end of the journey first. Result—lost passengers! As for the driver's point of view, there is a lot to he attributed to this hanging on points. In the first place, we get paid by the journey, and when we are moving, we have to go like furies to get our journeys in ; otherwise, we get a note from head office threaten ing us with dismissal, or else stopping our pay to make up for the lost fares. Secondly, it is no joke holding out a clutch with a terrific tension on the spring, and to keep easing up behind other buses as they leave the points slowly. Then, when one arrives at a point and finds several other buses holding it, you must stop somewhere to put down your passengers; maybe you pull up behind another bus. Up comes the policeman, takes your number, and you get a caution, or perhaps a summons for " cornmitting a breach of regulations, by stopping so many yards from the corner, when you ought to have gone higher up." If you run through the point, and stop further up the street, the company's inspector reports you for missing the point and so losing several passengers. What are you to do?

Passengers have serious ground for complaint : drivers have worse ground still, and loss of the passengers instead of gain ; lost journeys; summonses for racing opposition buses; excessive speed ; and stopping at points contrary to police regulations All these are evils from the same cause —the conductor's " bit of back."

I should like to see a regulation passed, and strictly enforced both by police and companies, that no stage carriage should stop, at any point, longer than is absolutely necessary to take up or set down the passengers. Then one could sail up to the stopping places, pick up the passengers, be off again at a respectable speed, and without having to race along to get the journeys in. The passengers, knowing that they would get to their destination quickly,

AgauId not wait for the conductor to get down on the pave-nent and coax them on to the car, as they do now. We should not lose passengers to the "tubes," and shallow -ailways, because, while taking tickets, going down lifts Ind stairs, waiting for trains, etc., the motorbus would be aaffway there; not as it is now. I have put forward the ase of the driver, as the Editorial seemed to imply that the irivers raced the road, and then had to hang out the time an the points. No such thing, Sir; it is vice-versa, the onductors hang about on the points, waiting for the next >us to come in sight ; then we have to race to get our journeys in; and very often the conductors will add insult :o injury by coming round and saying : " flurry up, mate; set 'em alight, there's so-and-so coming along behind I"—

Yours faithfully, " KEEP MOVING."

Me Question of Spring Wheels.

The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir :—I have been much interested in the discussion on Mr. Worby Beaumont's paper on " Petrol Motor Omnibuses," Many points of importance have been discussed, but, naturally, the one that interests me most is that relating to wheels.

Mr. Holroyd Smith would have us believe that spring wheels have passed the experimental stage. That may be so, but I do not think that many people will be found to admit that they have reached a practical stage, and, if my memory serves me, Mr. IIolroyd Smith referred to .5.0111e spring wheels in which he was interested, during the discussion on a paper on motor vehicles at the Institute, over six years ago. It is quite possible that an experimental wheel has run 5,000 miles, but that does not necessarily make it a practical commercial possibility. You, Sir, have, or had, in your possession, a considerable amount of information on the subject of spring and other wheels, which I collected a year or two ago, and no doubt much might now be added to it. To a certain extent I agree with Mr. Torkington that the proper place to absorb vibration is on the periphery of the wheel, that is, at its point of inception, and I also agree to a certain extent with Mr. Worby Beaumont, when he says that he would prefer to increase the cost of the springs rather than have complicated spring arrangements in the wheels. I should be the last to prophesy that we shall never see a practical spring wheel, but, hitherto, most of those who have tried to evolve it seem to have overlooked some vital point. In the first place, one wants to grasp what is the object of a spring wheel at all. Some people seem to think that it is to obviate the necessity for riding springs on the vehicle. This, I think, may be dismissed at once as out of the question. A spring wheel cannot be expected to compensate for considerable bumps in the road, and neither does a pneumatic tire. The pneumatic tire, however, does to a great extent compensate for small inequalities, by absorbing-, as it were, stones, and sharp edges of hollows and ridges, but it is extremely improbable that a spring wheel with any other than a pneumatic tire, would do this. The only object which then remains to be achieved by a spring wheel is the legitimate one of the reduction of vibration, which must always occur with any other than a pneumatic tire, over all but the smoothest of roads. This vibration is caused by the hammering of the wheel on the road, and it is to a certain extent taken up by a rubber tire. But it must be remembered that this hammering takes place at a point or line, and the rubber tire is merely a buffer interposed between the rigid structure of the wheel and the line of contact on the ground; therefore, the only part of the rubber which serves as an anti-vibratory device is just that part between the road and the wheel; the whole of the rest of the tire, at any particular moment, is idle. Bearing this noint in mind, and remembering that in many vehicles there is a considerable weight on the axle, it will be seen that the rubber cannot he expected, in such heavy compression, to absorb a great deal of the vibration.

Spring wheels, on the other hand. might be expected to absorb most of the vibration, but they generally necessitate the use of a number of springs, or of mechanical, moving parts in the wheel, where theyare particularly objectionable, unless properly protected, and adequately lubricated. Even then the parts of these springs, or of the mechanical motions attached to the outer part of the wheel, are subjected to constant vibration. It is as though nart of the mechanism of the vehicle were mounted, practically, on the axles without the intervention of springs. Besides all this, however, the spring wheel necessitates the axle moving towards the point of contact of the wheel on the ground., that is to say, it is out of centre with the wheel, and, therefore, greater power is absorbed in driving the vehicle with wheels so fitted. And again, the majority of these spring wheel devices do not sufficiently take into account the necessity for lateral strength, besides which the expense of construction generally puts them out of court as a practical commercial success.

It may be thought strange that I should thus argueagainst elastic wheels, when I am myself interested in a somewhat similar contrivance, but I would point out that the Tangent wood wheel is not, never has been, and does not profess to be a spring wheel. It is not intended to abolish pneumatic or solid rubber tires, nor even the springs of the vehicle, but it does possess just sufficient resiliency to absorb a great deal of road vibration. This resiliency is. obtained by the distribution of stresses almost equally through all parts of the wheel, instead of in the one or two spokes immediately between the axle and the road, and the resiliency, in contra-distinction to the excessive rigidity of wheels of the ordinary type, is obtained without in any way sacrificing either the lateral or vertical strength of the wheel, and, in fact, both are rather increased.

The spring wheel may be generally adopted eventually, for the lighter class of vehicles, but I do not think that the time will arrive until the principles and practical problemsinvolved are better understood. Trusting that I have not trespassed too much on your space, an pleading as anexcuse for the length of this letter that the subject is oneof very great importance to the whole motor-using corninunity.—Yours faithfully, keoto. G. L. Maaknam, M.Inst.Mech.E., M.I.A.E.

The Vapour Emission Competition.

The Editur, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir :—The letter of Mr. J. W. Stocks in your last issue shows us that we were not, as we had surmised, alone in our reading of the rules for the Vapour Emission Competition, and in our surprise at the nature of the judge's report, and, therefore, we desire to endorse his remarks. It is true the matter of an analysis of the exhaust was mentioned, and competitors were made aware that one would be taken, but we contend that no indication was given in the rules that this would form practically the only factor considered in arriving at the awards, as would appear to be the case from a perusal of the report ; and further, that, read as any ordinary Englishman would read the rules, we, in common with our fellow-competitors, were justified in concluding that the main object of the competition was to arrive at the means of securing an invisible exhaust and preventing the belching forth of clouds of smoke from the exhaust, due in the main to faulty lubrication which is so common and objectionable a feature of many cars to

day. For our part, we were quite aware there were two sources of foul exhaust to be considered—the rules clearly stated this—but we believed we were justified in concluding that success in effectively dealing with either would receive at least equal recognition. For our own part, having adopted a system of lubrication upon our Tootis cam which, when once properly adjusted, secures with absolute precision the exactly proportioned lubrication of each cylinder and bearing, with the impossibility of smoke at any time from over lubrication and a consequent high economy in oil consumption, we entered the competition solely with the object of demonstrating this fact. Further than this, the 3oh.p. Lotis car which we entered was run without any special " tuning up " or adjustment of its lubricators for the event, being run exactly as she has been running in this respect for the past nine months, during the whole of which time no adjustment or alteration whatever had been made in them. We were quite prepared to find ourselves losing marks on the analysis, as that was the side of the contest in which we were least interested. Like most other makers, we have no laboratory at hand for experiments in this direction, and, as we adjust our carburetter to combine in the highest degree the points which the public for the most part seem to desire, viz., steady running at all speeds, acceleration, power and " holding " qualities on hilts, and, as we believe it to be a fact, that, if a near approach to theoretical completeness of combustion is attained, some of these points have to be sacrificed, we were content with tackling the evil from one side only, and remedying that form of foul exhaust to which the public most object. After all, on Ibis C.O. question, whilst it is quite true That, if you shut up a car in a box and ran it an hour or two, the air in the box wouldn't be fit to breathe, in the working conditions under which cars are used we have about six miles of atmosphere above us into which the infinitesimal products of combustion quickly lose themselves.--Yours faithfully,

STURMEY MOTORS, LIMITED.

Coventry, April 25th, r907.

[Apart from any question of the specific or non-specific terms of the Club's rules for the competition to which our correspondents have referred, there is no denying the importance of the results which can be disclosed by gas analyses of this kind. Readers of " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR " will probably remember our advecaey of this course, as the only proper-and scientific method, when we were discussing certain " Gems from the 'Daily Telegraph, '' in July last (see this journal, Vol. III, No, 71, page 410).—En.]

Organisation of Road Carrying Companies.

The Editor," THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir :—Supplementing my remarks on the Organisation of Road Carrying Companies, you will perhaps allow me to say a few words about the private motorvan or wagon user. By this I mean the user who does his own carrying, only. This man, unless he be an engineer, is very much in the hands of his driver, and, if the latter is cute and unscrupulous, as some of them are, the motor will do just as much work as suits the convenience of the driver and no more, and will he frequently broken down. Something more than a good van or wagon is wanted to command success in motor haulage, and the employer will do well to thorotwhly digest the fact that a good driver makes all the difference between complete seeress and total failure. A good driver must be honest, truthful, sober, intelligent, and .self-respecting. He should have a

fair knowledge of the working principles of the machine he is -going to run and his heart mu-st be in his work. Having obtained such a man, the employer should encourage him, by means of a-well thought out berms system, to get the maximum amount of work out of the wagon with the minimum of repairs. Half a day a week should be kept absolutely sacred for cleaning down, washing out boiler, and examining machinery.

Finally, when engaging .a driver, do not neglect to investi gate thoroughly his past record. One has known cases where a glib-tongued scamp has been -engaged solely on his own recommendations, and irreparable damage has been done to valuable machinery before his incompetence was

found out. Such neglect of ordinary business prudence would appear incredible, yet it frequently takes place.— Yours faithfully, HENRY A. NEAL. Somerville, Richmond,

April end, 1907.

"Miesse" Cars.

The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir :—We shall be glad if you will permit us to explain through the medium of your journal that we are not in any way interested in the petrol car now being placed on the market by a small syndicate under the name " Miesse." We are not in any way connected with the car in question, either financially or as manufacturers, and as we have evidence that the name applied to it is causing confusion and leading the public to associate it with the wellknown Miesse steam cars which we have been manufacturing and selling for the past four or five years, we are applying to the Courts for an injunction to prevent the further use of the name " Miesse " by the syndicate in question .—You rs faithfully,

TURNER'S MOTOR MANUFACTURING CO., LTD, J. BURNS DUMBELL

(Managing Director). Wulfruna Works, Wolverhampton, April 26th, 1907.


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