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P.T.A. Conference

26th May 1961, Page 52
26th May 1961
Page 52
Page 55
Page 52, 26th May 1961 — P.T.A. Conference
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Which of the following most accurately describes the problem?

Lively Discussion on Papers at Eastbourne

Delegates Worried about Recruitment : Desire to Retain Double-deckers Apparent

By Alan Havard

ly/Ho said the bus industry was in decline? As long as busmen think and VV talk as vigorously as they did at the Public Transport Association's Eastbourne Conference, which ended last week, there is no doubt about the robustness of the industry—a robustness which quite obviously will outlast the Wailing Willies who say otherwise.

The two papers, by Mr. R. C. Moore and Mr. J. McHugh, were summarized inlast week's issue of The Commercial Motor.

In the discussion which followed Mr.

Moore's paper it became quickly apparent that there is a distinct uneasiness in busmen's minds about the staff position now, but more especially in 10 years' time. It was also obvious that although they share the same bed, as P.T.A. members, company and municipal busmen are very .quick to accuse each other of snoring.

The recently retired Sheffield general manager received a tremendous ovation from the delegates after his paper, and richly deserved the accolade bestowed on him by the chairman, Mr. A.. F. R. Carling, who said that Mr. Moore had become an. elder statesman of the industry.

" Passing Phase"

Mr. Moore referred in his paper to the "solid backbone bf pre-war employees, who "looked with scorn on some of the activitiet of the newcomers." He trusted the present day marked only a passing phase. Mr. Moore also expressed a hope that company and municipal concerns would establish co-operation to make the best use of idle municipal vehicles for week-end work outside the municipal boundary.

B18

Mr. T. G. Davies (Western Welsh Omnibus Co., Ltd.) did not agree with Mr. •Moore's suggestion that someone kept fleets specially for week-end traffic. Companies, he said. had the same peak problems as municipalities. The company coach fleets were not interchangeable with buses; if the buses were used as coaches, the companies would soon lose their traffic.

The effect on through fares of individual blanket increases concerned Mr. T. P. O'Donnell (Ashton-underLyne), who agreed with Mr. Moore that more co-ordination of bus fleets was needed.

One way in which municipalities and companies might co-operate was mentioned by Mr. J. H. Richardson (East Midland Motor Services, Ltd.).

Because the municipalities could not supply suitable vehicles did not preclude hiring of their vehicles by company operators. The municipal buses could be put on the company stage routes and dual-purpose vehicles taken off the routes at week-ends for coach work.

Within 10 years from now the backbone" employees will be gone; what then? Mr. J. Forster (Northern General Transport Co, Ltd.) asked this question and gloomily answered himself by saying: "I don't see many great hopes." He displayed a grudging, but reserved, agreement with Mr. Moore that long service bonuses and extra payments for awkward hours might have some merit. He thought there was scope for more co-ordination between the unions and the employers over employee relations.

The title of the paper. "Three men and a Bus" was very apt, quipped Mr, D. M. Sinclair (Midland Red). " On some of our rural. services that is just about what we have. got.By and large, he went on, municipalities had a smaller proportion of non-paying services than companies. The "week-end cream" enabled those non-paying company routes to be kept on. What about the employee ? "1 like him," said Mr. Sinclair. It would pay handsomely to do what they could about giving week-ends off. He also made a plea for the annual wage battle to be called off.

"This Phase"

Mr. G. N. Cherry (Birkenhead) thought the crux of the paper was the operative. The " phase," as Mr. Moore called it, had been going on for 20 years and Mr. Cherry could see little hope of it ever being passed. He criticized the "solid backbone" men for not taking an active part in union affairs, but he agreed these men would not be replaced. He did not know what was going to happen. "How can you attract labour in a period of full employment?" he asked.

A slight change of subject was introduced by Mr. Norman Dean (Yorkshire Traction Co., Ltd.) who said he would like to see more thought given to cabaccess on buses where the front entrance was behind the bulkhead. General managers, he said, were very worried about the continual fares increases. If the Ministry would only remit fuel tax, it would give the industry a sorely needed breather.

Mr. Hen Goodfellow (Sheffield United Tours. Ltd.) thought it best for municipalities and companies to work together.

Forthright comment came from the Sheffield transport committee chairman, Aid. S. 1. Dyson, a staunch trade unionist. Surely, he said, the municipalities were entitled to some of the "sweetmeats?" There was too much sloppiness in management, he averred. If you fix the wages for the job right, and general managers have the nerve to establish discipline, the men will respond." Co-ordination of services was essential, he claimed, adding: "The public interest must precede the vested interests of small companies."

"Keep off our cabbage patch was the attitude towards municipal work outside their boundaries from Mr. John Birch (Birch Bros.. Ltd.). The solution for idle vehicles was to reduce fleets and hire at peaks from operators who had vehicles available.

Mr. R. G. James (East Kent Road Car Co., Ltd.) made a call for more goodwill between men and management, then Mr. R. W. Birch (B.E.T.) wound up the discussion by thanking Mr. Moore and wishing him a happy retirement.

Mr. McHugh went to great pains to point out that the specification which formed the basis of his paper was only a concept; a vehicle had not been produced. In view of this, it was perhaps a pity that

so much of the discussion following his paper centred on the specification, rather than on operating problems that might develop from the use of 36-ft.-long boses.

Sir William Black (A.E.C.) opened the discussion by saying he was at variance with Mr. McHugh on a number of points. He questioned whether there was going to be such a large market for this type of machine. Large standees were only acceptable (if the unions would have them) in congested areas. There was a resurgence of interest in double-deckers throughout the world. To get the public back on buses, the industry must compete with private cars. He thought that Mr. McHugh was making extravagant claims when he said he could produce the bus for the same price as a conVentional vehicle. "

A rather different point of view came from Mr. Sinclair, who thought it was a marvellous concept, but said: "You will not get 75 passengers in this country." He felt that a different power unit to the diesel was almost certain to become available in the next 10 years. Mr. Sinclair thought the design would need more power. He questioned the cost of repairs to a body that was a one-piece moulding. He did not like the spinal cord chassis. He also questioned whether rubber suspension would not be better.

Why must it be a transit bus on American lines? asked Mr. C. C. Oakham (Lancashire United Transport). What was wrong with a double-decker? The vehicle carried fewer passengers than existing double-deckers. He also raised the question of repairs to the body. He thought air boost to hydraulic brakes was the worst of both worlds, and suggested a transmission hand brake. Mr. Dakham thought the wheel-boxes would be too large for comfortable seats to be built over them. Would not the heated air from the engine bring fumes with it when used to heat the saloon?

What About Tyres?

Mr, S. C. Vince (B.E.T.) thought that most people would like a vehicle of this description if it were feasible. Would the manufacturers be willing to co-operate in producing the size of tyre required, however. It was not surprising to find Mr. Vince agreeing with his ex-chief Mr. Sinclair that rubber was a better suspension material. He thought that to make the body stiff enough would defeat the low weight object. He could not, in any case, see Mr. McHugh gettinghis bus down to that weight. He, too, thought that an alternative type of power unit—such as a fuel cell—ought to be considered. He thought that if a standard body could be agreed with the body builders, the cost could be cut by up to 25 per cent.

Mr. S. J. B. Skyrme (Potteries Motor Traction) said he would not like to see the vehicles restricted to only 48 seats. He would like one with 53 to 55 seats in order to replace smaller double-deckers and be available at week-ends for other work. A bigger engine, operating at lower revs would be preferable—possibly air cooled. Mr. Skyrme also liked rubber suspension.

The question of seats concerned Mr. G. H. Pulfrey (Hull), who said he would not like to see more than 45 seats for city traffic; it should be one-man operated. "It would go a long way to satisfying me," he said

Distortion

Glass-fibre in straight panels would surely distort in hot weather, said Mr. E. V. Dyson (Huddersfield). He thought a better application for the vehicle would be coach work. For 'stage work it carried' fewer passengers and took up more road space than a contemporary double-decker.

Mr. Dean indulged in a" little mental arithmetic. Mr. -McHugh had quoted a. selling pricer of 10s..rper lb. Based on. the body weight quoted, therefore, the, vehicle would sell at £3,700. " More power to your elbow if you can produce' it," he said.

The that speaker was Mr. James Amos (Scotch Omnibuses) who did not agree that the days of the double-decker Were limited. Operators might wanti larger. vehicles of that type.. There would be a' tremendous demand for a. moderate sized; vehicle which could be used -to retain frequencies which operators did not want to -reduce further. "Give us a buS which will do the"job just. a little_ more economically than the -single-deckers we now operate," he said.

In his reply, Mr. -McHugh .defended the four-cycle diesel. To get a constant platform height, air suspension was, needed. He agreed that accident repairs might be a body problem. The heated air would not come from the engine compartment, but from the fan.


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