No shorter hours before tachographs,
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Tory Lords insist from our Parliamentary correspondent e The Lords have decided that the shorter drivers' hours proposed in the Transport Bill should not start until tachographs have been fitted in their vehicles.
This was the only important change in the Hours' regulations which the Tories insisted on forcing to a vote—and it was agreed by 59 votes to 42.
Moving the amendment, Lord Nugent of Guildford said that all consultations that took place with industry last year were on the basis that tachographs would be fitted before the new regulations were introduced.
The Government line that tachographs would not be ready by next spring, and the driving regulations had to be introduced without requiring this fitting, was something quite new.
He noted the ."very cogent" advice of the Prices and Incomes Board that the fitting of tachographs was one of the essential factors in order to get extra productivity.
, Enforcement of the law as it now stood was well known to be virtually impossible, went on Lord Nugent. Therefore if the drivers' hours were further shortened enforcement would become even more impossible. It was quite obvious that many firms would dodge the shorter hours at the expense of firms which observed them.
Resisting the change, Government spokesman Lord Stonham described the amendment as "powerful stuff". It might be 18 months after the passing of the Bill before there were enough tachographs.
The Minister of Transport intended that the reduction of drivers' hours could operate from the spring of next year, and, said Lord Stonham, he did not accept the implication that it was pointless to reduce hours if tachographs were not first fitted.
It might be argued that if this view was accepted, then the operators would be glad of the delay, because they could benefit from the tachographs in the way of better control over their drivers and in the management of their fleets, before being faced with any possible increased costs arising from the reduction of hours for their men.
That would be a most unhappy arrangement, and one to which Lord Nugent would be the last to subscribe.
Lord Stonham stressed that tachographs measured only driving time, whereas the new rules imposed. limits on the length of the working day and week, on hours and periods of days off.
Tachographs were merely an aid to enforcement and not an indispensable one, so the amendment was quite untenable. The present rules had been enforced for nearly 40 years without tachographs.
The Government hoped that tachographs would be ready in about 18 months, though many were already in use.
Lord Stonham asserted that the Ministry of Transport had never discussed drivers' hours with the industry on the basis that tachographs would be introduced first. The only basis on which there had been discussion was that there would be provision for both in the Bill. Lord Stonham gave further details of the way in which exceptions to the driving hour rules may be made—though he emphasized that there could not be a mass of exceptions. He pointed out that regulations could be made to create exemptions and promised that if the new limits on drivers' hours could be shown to cause serious difficulties they could, and would, be tackled in this way.
"The only point on which we insist is that we are certainly not prepared in any case to allow the hours to be longer than they are at present, and we must certainly at all times consider the safety of all who use the roads and the well-being of the drivers."
• If exemptions were granted very readily, added Lord Stonham, it would destroy this clause of the Bill, and there would be no purpose at all in having it. But he gave an assurance that the Minister would very carefully consider making exemptions if a good case were made out.
Ifs regulation were made covering a particular class—such as horse-boxes or perishable produce—there would be no need for application to local commissioners or anyone else.
He was critical of the amendments put forward by the Tories, who spoke of "flexibility". To them, he said, there was only one interpretation of "flexibility"—that the chaps must be flexible enough to work longer hours, more hours all the time. One thing the Government was quite adamant about was that they were not going to have a working week longer than 60 hours.
Another Government spokesman, Lord Hilton of Upton, noted that there might be a few special cases where it would be genuinely impossible to stick to the rules in full where bus drivers were concerned, or where some time would be needed to adjust certain of them. The Minister would have ample powers to deal with such cases by regulation. Lord Stonham said he would ask the Minister of Transport to look at suggestions about changes in bus drivers' days off put forward by the Duke of Atholl, but he said he could not accept an amendment from the Duke, which would mean that drivers of public service vehicles of every kind would have to take one day a fortnight instead of one day a week.
Lord Stonham successfully asked the House to accept an amendment which, he said, made the day-off requirements applicable to stage bus drivers much simpler to understand and to operate and enforce.
He noted that the Bill did not require the Minister to have consultations before making extensive alterations to the drivers' hours rules, but under the Road Traffic Act he had to consult. This omission from the Transport Bill was unintended, but the Minister never intended to act without consultation.
This did not mean he would consult everybody on every occasion. For practical purposes, detailed consultations must generally be limited to the "top hamper" of associations such as the CBI, TUC, the RHA, the Transport Users' Joint Committee and the TRTA.
Many other representative bodies might be affected by proposed changes, and sometimes it would be right to invite them to discuss • the changes in detail. Sometimes they would just be informed about what was afoot and left to comment if they wished. On other occasions it would be reasonable to leave it to the major national associations to obtain the views of their affiliated members.
He gave an undertaking that the Government would table amendments which would include an obligation on the Minister to consult "such representative organizations as he thinks fit" before making any orders or regulations about hours.