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13th April 1905, Page 7
13th April 1905
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Page 7, 13th April 1905 — MOTORS FOR BREWERS.
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Which of the following most accurately describes the problem?

Testimony from Users shows Motors Unequalled in Daily Work.

The brewing industry was one of the first to take up heavy motor traffic, and, consequently, includes a number of users whose experience in the use of self-propelled vehicles dates back as much as six or seven years. It is a matter for regret that, in our preparations for the brewing trade section of this issue, we did not allow a longer interval for the obtaining of replies, as such provision would have doubled the number of photographs and reports. Our first request was addressed less than a fortnight ago to the firms and companies, aggregating upwards of 6o, which we knew to be users. In more than a score of these cases, where we had recent information that the machines were giving satisfaction to their owners, this shortness of notice has accounted for the absence of any fresh communication which we care to publish, because we naturally do not like to make any use of matter which has already been published as a testimonial or in other shape. At the same time, reference should not be omitted to this considerable proportion of the trade, and we feel obliged to mention, by way of example, and to show the importance of the volume of data which further time for correspondence or visits would have rendered available, a few typical instances. The omissions from our pages to-day include Messrs. Greenall, Whitley and Co., Ltd., St. Helens, Lancashire ; the West Kent Brewery Co., Wyndham Road, Camberwell, S.E. ; Messrs. II. Greenfield and Co., Eagle Brewery, Wellclose Square, E.C. ; Messrs. Bentley's Yorkshire Brew cries, Ltd., Eshald Well Brewery, Woodlesford, near Leeds ; Messrs. Lloyd and Yorath, Ltd., High Street, Newport, Mon. ; Messrs. Westlake's Brewery, Ltd., Mae:laves' ; Messrs. Fremlin Bros., Maidstone. Favourable accounts have been given by all of these users, some of whom employ three machines. We have ascertained that so of the breweries from which no replies have been received have been somewhat disappointed in the results yielded by machines which were built several years ago, and which possess all the defects that were peculiar to the earlier days of steam haulage by motor wagon. In some of the to cases, personal visits have proved to us that the users would certainly derive more benefit from writing off these earlier enachines entirely, or arranging to sell them back to the makers at scrap value, than from continuing to run them with frequent breakdowns on the road and consequent disorganisation of deliveries. This is only in keeping with the practice of our American cousins in relation to old machinery, and one or other of these courses has been followed with great success in not a few instances where more modern wagons are now sue, cessfully employed. We are only sorry that the managers of these so concerns have not taken the trouble to send us letters for publication. Nothing is lost by publicity, and it is no part of our programme to suppress unfavourable comments; hence, we open these pages by reproducing, merely withholding the name of the wagon, the only three critical letters which have reached us respecting motor haulage for brewery work. In this connection we are obliged to point out, in justice to the makers of the particular machines referred to, which ore three separate types, built at three separate works, that each constructor holds sufficient testimonials from satisfied users to show experience and opinions of this nature to he the exception which proves the rule. The condemnation of any make upon an isolated record should seldom be entertained, for it is generally when an unreasonable amount of work is attempted, which results in the overworking of the driver, who becomes stale and unfit for duty, that bad results are obtained, and experiences of this kind indicate that too much has sometimes been expected of the mechanical vehicle. It is well known that, despite the near approach to perfection which characterises leading makes of pleasure cars, no single manufacturer is exempt from the customer who will " crab " his system. The same experience evidently arises in commercial work, and we consider that in publishing both sides, especially as the bad accounts reach so insignificant a proportion, the proof of success is made the clearer.

It will readily be followed, in the circumstances we have explained, that our communications might have been more numerous, whilst we must also point out that there are various manufacturers who have recently entered the field with makes of motor vehicles which are eminently suitable to do the work which is described as having been accomplished by other types. Our illustrations accordingly include examples of such systems, and it may be taken as the broad result of experience that, given a careful driver and ordinary business treatment, a steam lorry to carry five tons can work 2oo miles a week at a total inclusive cost, apart from cellarmen who are common to any class of haulage, of ,(26 res. a week. What 5-ton petrol lorries can accomplish is now in process of demonstration. Makers of these machines assert that they are capable of equalling steam in every particular, and there ate users, with the twa systems working side by side, who will very shortly be in a position to give valuable information ; but it is safe to say that no risk is involved in the purchase of steam vehicles for loads above three tons. Again, the possible use of small steam tractors, such as are built by Messrs. Wallis and Steevens, Ltd., of Basingatoke, Messrs. Aveling and Porter, Ltd., of Rochester, Messrs. Wm. Foster and Co., Ltd., of Lincoln, and Messrs. Clayton and Shuttleworth, Ltd.' Of Lincoln, should not be overlooked, for these steam horses are slightly cheaper both in first cost and in running cost than steam lorries, although less handy for backing, manceuvring, and hill climbing on setts in greasy condition. It is where they can be employed to pick up separate trolleys one at a time, thereby avoiding delays, that its usefulness is chiefly to be noted.

On the question of steam versus petrol, the older power is very greatly in excess of the newer contestant for favour. We clearly see great scope for 2-ton petrol lorries and for the use of petrol cars for inspectors, superintendents, and travellers, but the 5-ton lorries cost several hundred pounds more than steamers. There is no room for us to deal in detail with the many suitable light cars that are obtainable for such purposes and for personal use, but it may be pointed out that capital expenditure of less than L200 will provide a two-seated car capable of averaging close upon 20 miles an hour, and of taking very steep gradients, which will cost under 42 a week, inclusive of depreciation and a youth to accompany the agent, for weekly trips reaching 300 miles. Larger cars capable of taking four persons, and fitted with two-cylinder engines, may be put at so per cent, higher both in capital cost and weekly charge. We direct particular attention to the experience of Messrs. Mann, Cressman and Paulin, Ltd., of Albion Brewery, Whitechapel Road, E., in the hope that they will not long remain unchallenged for the pride of place which their enterprise has rightly secured to them. Their managing director, Mr. T. W. Thorpe, to whom we are indebted for permission to take the photograph, considers that it is unnecessary to supply any communication to accompany the illustration, and we quite agree that a picture of this kind speaks for itself. The steps by which their rolling stock has reached its present stage have been gradual, beginning with the purchase of a single machine in the spring of 1902. Troubles of various kinds were passed through, but we are authorised to say that there has been a very considerable economy from the

start, and that the numerous improve ments recently effected in construction has made the position an increasingly satisfactory one. One of the wagons is employed in the

bottling department, as will be observed in the photograph which we reproduce on page rot, whilst several similar wagons are hired from the Motor Cartage and Transport Co., Ltd. The Cornbrook Brewery Co., Ltd., Chester Road, Manchester.—" I am sorry that your communication of March 3ist has been overlooked. We have only one motor wagnn, and have no pbcitograpn that would be likely to be of any assistance to you. We are certainly not particularly pleased with the work our motor has done, and could not recommend it. It is certainly an economy as against horseitesh for long journeys if the roads are not too rough, but our experience has been that taking one month with another, the machine is in hospital for repairs about 25 per cent, of its time.

Messrs. William Whitaker and Co., Ltd., The Old Brewery, Bradford.—" In reply to yours of the 3oth ult., we own one motor wagon, which we have had for about three years. If it went out every day it would do the work of four horses, but unfortunately it is broken down and under repairs on an average of about three days a week. 'I his is a very hilly district, which is a great disadvantage to steam wagons. It has proved a most expensive experiment, and I should not entertain trying another until they are very much improved, and more reliable. When there is the slightest frost on the roads, or about half an inch of snow, they are simply useless. We do not use any light motors for the bottling department." Messrs. Ind, Coupe and Co., Ltd., The Brewery, Romford.—" In reply to yours of the ist instant, our experience of the motor has been such an unsatisfactory and expensive one for us in the last IS months that we would rather say nothing more about it."

Messrs. J. W. Cameron and Co., Ltd., Lion Brewery, West Hartlepool.—" In further reply to your letter of the 1st instant, we are the owners of three steam lorries made by Mann's Patent Steam Cart and Wagon Co., Ltd., of Leeds. These have been actively employed—No.

r, since June, 1901 ; No. 2, since November, 1901 ; No. 3, since August, incia. These lorries are principally engaged on journeys varying in distance from to to 26 miles per day. One of the lorries is almost exclusively used for carrying mineral waters over long distances averaging about 25 miles per day ; these journeys are usually done between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. It would be quite possible to travel a much longer distance if required. The other two lorries are principally employed in general journey work delivering cask ale, wines, and spirits, etc., to customers, the average load carried being about four tons per lorry. Our machines have to encounter very hilly and rough country at times, particularly in the west part of the County of Durham, but we have always found them equal to negotiating any of the hills on these particular journeys. Our experience is that given a good driver, there is a considerable saving in cost against horses, if the machines are properly handled we emphasise this as so much depends upon bow they are worked. In good hands the cost of upkeep may easily be kept within proper limits, whilst a had driver will soon increase your repairing account as well as add to your cost by getting into trouble on the road with other traffic. Generally speaking, we estimate each lorry does the work of about six horses. There is one difficulty in comparing steam lorries with horses, that is, during the winter months these lorries cannot travel over country bound in snow and frost, whereas horses are always available. We regret being unable to give more time to the matter this week."

Messrs. Wm. IIancock and Co., Ltd., The Brewery, Cardiff.—" We are in receipt of your letter of the gist and, as desired therein, we arc sending you by this post photographs of our two latest motor vehicles; one a Mann's five. ton steam lorry, and the other a MilnesDaimler four-cylinder, 2oh.p., three-ton petrol wagon. We have at present altogether at Cardiff five motor vehicles in use, viz., two Thornycroft steam wagons, two Mann steam wagons, one MilnesDaimler petrol wagon. We started with Thornyeroft steam wagon in November, x9cn, and our latest addition was the petrol wagon which was delivered to us in February of this year. With regard to the working of these vehicles, we find that with suitable work for them to do, they are much more economical than horse traction, and we should say that under these conditions a five-ton steam wagon would more than take the place of six horses. Our petrol wagon we are using for the delivery of bottled goods, and, although our experience of it is a short one, so far we are most satisfied with it."

Messrs. W. H. Brakspear and Sons, Ltd., The Brewery, Henley-on-Thames. —" Our wagon was built for us by Messrs. E. Foden and Sons, of Sandbach, in the summer of 1902. The upkeep was estimated at Zi per week, and during the first few months it was about this, as being one pf the first patterns many improvements had to be added. Last year our total repairing account was Lt 15s. We tested our wagon and trailer up to eight tons' load, although in actual work we limit our load to six tons. We burn (full and empty) 'cwt. of coal per eight miles. During the last two years we have run 12,000 miles and carried 7,000 tons, exclusive of return empties, which are heavy in the hrewing trade. We estimate the wagon to replace five horses, but as she takes all the long journeys and so relieves the other horses, she really saves much more. During the whole time we have used the wagon we have always found her above the work, and no hill seems too steep for her."

Messrs. C. Vaux and Sons, Ltd., The Brewery, Sunderland. — "Replying to your enquiry, I have the greatest pleasure in giving you particulars of the motor wagons we have in use, and may say that, owing to shortness of time, I have only been able to give details of the work done by one of the wagons which we have in use here. The other wagons have been at various times at our branch stores, consequently the information is not so readily to hand. The illustrations I enclose you are, I am afraid, not of great interest, and had I had more notice 1 should have endeavoured to give you better photographs to work from. Our first three cars were 3-tortners, built by Messrs. Thernycroft, the first delivered in May. 1900, the second in February, tram, and the third in May, 1902. The last is the ear of which I am supplying you the detailed particulars. We also have in use a Londonderry steam wagon to carry 5 tons, which was bought in October, 1904, and consequently we have not had sufficient experience of her to give much information. I may say, however, that she was bought after very exhaustive tests on heavy country journeys of a similar wagon. The boilers in use on our cars are the usual Thornycroft water tube type, and almost the only trouble we have had with these wagons has been owing to the extreme hardness of our water here in crusting the boilers. We have, however, of late years fitted a large soft water tank on our premises, and have been able to overcome this to a great extent. Our No. 3 wagon, which has been in use since May, 1902, here, I find, from the diary kept of her work, has done, to the end of March. 16,964 miles, and this with an invariable load of within a hundredweight or two of three tons. Out of this total, a mileage of 7,290 miles—almost half of the total mileage—has been on the journey from here to Annfield Plain, one of the worst if not the worst) roads in this district both for surface and for hills. There are two long hills on this road r in 64. This wagon has been 243 times on this

journey during the period of 35 months. I may mention that her load being in almost every instance bottled beer in cases, the empties are a very considerable weight, and she consequently may be considered as running loaded both ways. Her average of coke used is sicwt. per day. In addition to this, she each week makes a journey twice daily to a store 74 miles away, carrying the same class of load. The roads in this district, and especially on the long journey mentioned above, are very bad in winter, many of them being apparently bottomless, and in consequence of this we substitute steel wheels, with rein. tyres, for the ordinary wooden wheels during the whole of the winter. During the whole period this wagon has never been out of our own yard for repair, the whole of the necessary repairs having been done to her by the driver, and her upkeep has been practically immaterial in amount. The other Thornycroft cars we have in use have done equally well ; but, being in use earlier and before we had the experience we now have in their management, cost somewhat more for upkeep. In particular, one of them has had a new boiler, and the boiler taken out of her has been kept, after repair, as a spare boiler, which is very useful in case of a breakdown. Regarding your question as to the number of horses replaced by these wagons, we may say some of our journeys are such as horses would be unable to do, and these are done at a considerable saving on the cost of carriage by rail, and • also at a very great convenience to our customers in comparison with the latter mode of conveyance, owing to delays which occur in railway deliveries at busy times, and to the frequent pillerage which occurs. In the country journeys round about this district we estimate our 3-ton wagons to be equal to six horses, and in the town to almost the same number; but we would mention that we avoid almost entirely using motor wagons for journeys which require a large amount of stopping and starting to deliver, as we find them most economical when used to deliver the whole load at one destination. The views enclosed represent the No. 3 wagon, of which we have given particulars above, on its ordinary journey with a load of bottled goods in cases. We invariably wash out every Saturday, and, taking the working days, therefore, to be five days a week, which gives 754 working days (not allowing for holidays) during the period under review, this wagon has done an average of 224 miles per working day during the period of 35 months, which I venture to think, will be difficult to beat. I need hardly say after giving these particulars that my opinion of motor wagons for this class of work is very strongly in their favour, and if I can give you any further particulars which will assist you in the work you have in hand I shall be very glad to do so."

Messrs. Bellamy Bros., Ltd., Hamilton Street, Grimsby.—" We have yours of the 3rd instant to hand, and we have great pleasure in giving you the particulars you ask for re the running of our Yorkshire motor. First motor delivered May 12th, 1903; distance travelled from that date to December '31st, 1904, 10,866 miles, at a cost for coke and smokeless coal. of 3s. 2d. per journey of an average of 40 miles (taking coke at 135. and coal at ass. per ton), three parts coke and one part coal. If all coke was used it would save 7d. per journey, but we find our drivers like a little coal for long journeys, it being easier to fire. Weight of goods carried varies from two to five tons, according to the rounds taken (with or without trailer as required). Journeys vary from 30 to 60 miles. The cost of repairs from May rat], 1903, to December 3ist, 1903, was and from January zst, 1904, to December 31st, 1904, Z•32 75. We find for about the

first 12 months very little repairs are required; after that time wheel-tyreing and small repairs are required to keep the machine in first-class working order. Our second motor was received on May i8th, 1904. Distance travelled 4,940 miles up to December 31st, 1904, running similar journeys to the previous one at the same cost for fuel, and at a cost of 15 3s. for repairs. These figures are taken from our log-book, and we shall be pleased to give any further particulars you may require. We find that for our mineral water and bottled beer trade, on country roads, each wagon will replace eight horses working in pairs. We shall be pleased at any time to allow anyone who is thinking of going in for motor traction to have a day on one of our wagons in their actual work, and then they can see for themselves. We are forwarding you a photograph taken at Skegness, where we have a depot, which is 6o miles run out and in from Louth, and is run regularly."

Messrs. Ord, Battiscombe and Elwes, The Brewery, Somerton, Somerset:—" In answer to your letter, we have pleasure in giving you the following particulars of our lorries. On March 3rd, 1900, we bought our first one from Mann and Co., Leeds. We may add that this was one of the first machines turned out by this firm. We ran this up to March loth, 1903, during which time it covered 18,70r miles, and our repairs account came to .,6149 135. 8d. Messrs. Mann and Co. then took back this machine and supplied us with another of their latest type. From June 4th, 1903, to April 1st, 1905, it has covered 13,269 miles, our repair accounts during which time have only amounted to 425 13s. 5d., which we consider most satisfactory. Both the above-mentioned lorries will carry loads up to 5 tons, but, as this is a very hilly country, and the roads heavy and bad, we do not think that more than 4 tons should be put up, as the continual hard pulling is apt to make the tubes leak. So pleased are we with the excellent work of the last machine that we have just ordered one of their new 2-ton type. This machine was shown at the late Agricultural Hall Show, unfinished, but as we have not yet received delivery we can express no opinion on same. We consider that the large type of machine will do the work of six horses. We find mechanical transport far cheaper than horses, and it is for that reason that we are now going to run two machines and keep as few horses as possible. We may add that our largest journey is 22 miles out and back-44 miles in all. We do this with the lorry in one day. With horses it took two, with the extra expense of staying out for the night. The amount of fuel we should use for the journey, with roads in dry condition, and a 4-ton load, would be between 4 and 5cwt. of Merthyr coal, at about is. rd. per cwt. One other most important matter is to get a good driver. This, we need hardly say, makes all the difference in the repairs account."

The Farnham United Breweries, Ltd., Lion Brewery, Farnham, Surrey.—"Some two months ago we had delivered at our brewery a 5-ton Thornycroft steam wagon, fitted with a lorry body with open rail sides and a fixed wood roof, boiler of the locomotive type, with steel fire box and tubes, the engine of Thornycroft's horizontal compound reversing type, developing about 45h.p. at 500 revs, per minute. The cost of the above was The difficulty we had with a wagon which we had had on trial was that we could not get the load on the body, but with our present lorry we have quite overcome this difficulty, as, since we were informed that new regulations as to width would probably come into force, we had the platform made large enough to take three

barrels in width and six barrels in length, thus accommodating 18 barrels in the bed, and, by topping, we could, supposing the frame would carry it, load up 36 barrels, or over 7 tons. We consider that a roof is an absolute necessity, as it not only keeps the sun off in summer, but enables you to use the wagon for barley or other material which requires keeping dry in wet weather. There are two gears fitted, the lower one not being required very often, though it is very useful for moving about a heavy load in the yard when there is a lot of backing, etc., to be done. The fuel which we are using is a Welsh steam coal, Penrhiwceiber by name, costing 24s. 3d. per ton at Farnham Station, the amount used being about ()cwt. for every 20 miles of average road with a load of 5 tons. The cost per week of running our wagon, say, 30 miles a

day, with a load of 5 tons, on six days a week, would be approximately as fol lows :--Driver, 30$. ; clrayman, ; fuel and oil, 705. ; insurance, gs. ; interest on outlay, $35. 6d. ; depreciation, 275. ; or a total estimated cost per week of £8 75. 6d. We have worked our interest at 5 per cent., and the depreciation at to per cent. per year, but have made no allowance for repairs or renewals, as up to the present we have been unable to tell what they may run to, but all ordinary running repairs our driver is able to execute himself. We would point out the advisability of having a driver who is thoroughly competent, and who has had a certain amount of mechanical training. Our own driver had been with the L. and S.W. Railway as a fitter and afterwards as a locomotive driver ; we then arranged with Messrs. Thornycroft to let him be

at their works while the wagon was in erection. He thus obtained a thorough insight into all parts, and can be relied upon to keep the machinery in working order, but even then it is essential that the owner should look himself and see that the boiler and other parts are cleaned out at stated times. Our wagon is capable of taking 5 tons at an average pace of ix miles per hour, and will take a load over the Hog's Back from Farnham to Guildford in t: hours, returning with empties in t-} hours. We consider that, if properly looked after, it will do the work of six horses, but to obtain this result the work must be arranged so that the lorry is always carrying its full load and is not detained for any length of time in loading or unloading. We should mention that the wagon is gear driven, and this arrangement, in our opinion, is preferable tri chains, which cause trouble by stretching. Another point is to have a well-constructed engine shed with pit, working bench, water and gas laid on. We may say that we have laid a floor of secondhand railway sleepers, which is very inexpensive and answers very well indeed. We are having a separate loading stage erected, so that our loading out may not be detained through having horse-drawn vehicles about. We should be pleased to give any brewers or other traders who Lontemplate going in for motor lorries any information they may require, also to let them see our lorry at work on the road."

The Worksop and Retford Brewery Co., Ltd., i, Victoria Square, Worksop, summarise their results in the shape of a report :—" Enclosed photo of Thornycroft three-ton steam wagon and trailer to carry. two tons, purchased in July, 1902, per Messrs. T. C. Aveling and Co., Ltd., Birmingham. Has run almost daily since the date of purchase, and has covered 16,643 miles and carried 3,969 tons at a cost 44d. per ton mile. Has given every satisfaction in working, and is a considerable saving and convenience on haulage account. Worked regularly by one man and a stoker. Has been repaired for most part by our own fitters. Duplicates of the ordinary wearing parts are kept in stock

by us, and are easily replaced. We also have a spare boiler. Has only broken down on the road twice, and has, except on one occasion, been able to get home under its own steam. Used mostly for long journey and agency work, and averages 28 to 30 miles per day. Can comfortably take a gradient of i in 12, loaded up to five tons with trailer. A repeat order for a Thornycroft five-ton steam wagon is now in course of completion. The company have also two De Dion petrol cars for travellers and management work, and contemplate introducing 3ocwt. light petrol vans for the wine, spirit, and bottled ale department."

Messrs. H. M. Lang and Co., Ham. bridge Brewery and Flour Mills, Curry

Somersetshire.—" We send you herewith two photos of our Yorkshire motor. As we use it for mixed loads we cannot give you a correct log, but we think it will displace from five to six horses. We use the. ordinary ocean nut coal, which is now at 2os. per ton, and the consumption is about 4owt. per clay, or, say for a journey 12 to 13 miles out We have been running it since June last very successfully. Our machine has a cab and sides for brewery or mill work.'

The Chesterfield Brewery Co., Ltd., Chesterfield.—" In reply to your enquiry

of the ist instant, we have a Thornycroft motor wagon which we consider works very satisfactorily and saves from 20 to 23 per cent, on horseflesh."

Messrs. Smith and Co., The Brewery, Oundle.—" We send you under separate cover a photograph of our motor going through the floods. This vehicle was built by the Lancashire Steam Motor Co., Leyland, and has been running regularly since August, 1902. The motor wagon has given us every satisfaction, and great economy is evident in dealing with four-ton loads on journeys of fifteen miles out, but we think motors to carry two tons are more serviceable for brewers in general, because the trade has been worked by two-horse drays in the past, and the cellars or houses purchased seem to fit the smaller loads. For our general trade two two-ton petrol motors would, in our opinion, be more serviceable than the four-ton steamer, and we lean to petrol owing to the difficulty of often getting water and the loss of time taking it on board."

Messrs. Lucas and Co., Ltd., The Brewery, Leamington.—" In reply to yours of the 31st ultimo, we have two ma

chines in use, a steam dray by Thornycroft, and a petrol lorry by Milnes-Daim:Ler. The steam dray has been in use for three years, during which time it has given us great satisfaction. The first year it ran 6,455 miles in 205 working days ; the second year 6,602 miles in 237 days ; the third year 5,932 miles in 228 days. It carries 3 tons 4cwt., and as far as weight of load is concerned it replaces four horses, but, taking into consideration the distance run, in our opinion it would take six horses to perform the same work. The total weight carried in the three years has been 4,059 tons. With reference to the petrol motor, we have only had this in use since November, and have not taken. out complete figures relating to it. The only information we can give you regarding this vehicle is that it has run 2,631 miles in 96 working days. Of course, this is its winter work ; with good roads we expect better results. It carries a tons. racwt., which is a little more than a threehorse load. As far as distance is concerned, although we are hardly in a. position to say yet, we should think it would take almost five horses to do the same!

work. We have this morning had taker: photographs of each of our wagons, prints of which will be' posted to you on Thursday. Both wagons were taken with their ordinary day's load on. As to the question of petrol beating steam, we should hardly like to express a definite oninion."

Messrs. John Groves and Sons, Ltd.. hope Brewery, Weymouth.—" The wagon we have had in use since June last is one of the standard five-ton vehicles built by the Lancashire Steam Motor Co., Ltd., of Leyland. We have carefully watched the progress of the commercial motor since the early trials at Liverpool, and have had no reason to regret the selection of this particular make. The average load is about four tons, and the average distance run per week (usually five days' running time) is about 170 miles. The cost for repairs has been very slight, and the coke used is at the rate of six miles to the cwt., which we consider very good, as our roads are not of the best. We find it more difficult every year to purchase suitable horses for our work, and feel sure there is a fine future before the vehicle that can do without them. Our present experience proves the great advance since loon." Messrs. Stansfield and Co., Ltd., Swan Brewery, Fulham. —" Messrs. Savage Bros., of King's Lynn have asked us tocommunicate with you respecting their wagon, which we have had in use here for 12 months. It has always been preeminently satisfactory, not only as regards the small consumption of fuel, but also for its reliability, and we have given Messrs. Savage Bros. another contract."

Messrs. E. and H. Kelsey, Culverden Brewery, Tunbridge Wells.—" In reply to. your enquiry of the 31st ultimo, we have had for seven months a 3oh.p. steam lorry. A few weeks on the road, however, were sufficient to prove that the workmanship and some of the parts were far from satisfactory, and it is only now,. after extensive repairs have been made at the expense of the makers, that the lorry is proving of considerable value to us,. saving our horses most of the long journeys which they previously had to go. We consider that it takes the place of from four to five horses. We may add. that recently the lorry has caused us no trouble. It is on the road every day, with the exception of one half-day per week, necessary for a thorough cleaning. and overhaul."

Messrs. S. W. Arnold and Sons, Rowbarton Brewery, Taunton.—"We send you. photo of our Foden Steam Wagon. She is in her working condition, and had a long journey yesterday over dirty roads, and just off again. We have had her only five months, but so far are satisfied with her in every way. We are unable to say that weeffect an actual saving with her as compared with horses, but our experience isthat the latter are increasingly difficult to obtain, of a class suitable for our work (ours is a Country trade, and the heavy Shire horses suitable for Town delivery are not suitable for us), and we anticipate a considerable saving in wear and tear of them over the longer journeys, and, in addition, we can extend our single day deliveries from a radius of about zs miles to double that distance from the Breweries. Whilst we can say that the wagon has given us satisfaction, we regret that it is not yet possible for us to give any details as to economy, etc. Our experience is not vet sufficiently long for any statement of that kind."


Little has been said in the foregoing nine pages as to the mechanical details of the different vehicles to which references have been made, and it evident that users look mostly at results. No matter what type of engine or boiler, or what the combination of parts, the commercial use of motor vans and wagons hinges upon the question of economy. There is consequently no occasion, had we space at our disposal, to enter into any discussion upon matters of detail, whilst the trade has itself spoken upon the main point. It will always be a pleasure to us to afford any possible information to users, and to give specific replies to specific queries. The past eight years have served to advance the heavy motor traffic problem to a solution, and we see no reason why delay should be admitted in respect of the adoption of self-propelled vehicles of all kinds. It is not a sound argument to say that greater economies will result a few years hence, for material savings are possible to-day. Why fold one's arms for the time to arrive when 50 per cent, reduction in hauling charges can be effected, and thereby ignore the fact that 30 per cent, is realised already? Road experience, which alone is of value, has accumulated suffi.ciently to justify large expenditure, and the choice is by no means a restricted one. Brewers will find that makers are ready to meet all their requirements, and to supply excellent, workmanlike wagons or lighter lorries at reasonable prices, and the recent grant of freedom under the Heavy Motor Car order has removed the one cause of fearfulness that existed until the end of last year.


The St. Pancras Ironwork Co., Ltd., of 571. St. Pancras Road, -London, NW., are -building 5-ton wagons suitable for brewers' work. It so happens that no delivery has yet been made to a firm of brewers, but the machine is well designed and stoutly -constructed. Every care has been exercised in the selection of material for the various parts, as may be judged from the -fact that the whole of the bearings thvoughout the machine, as well as the

bushes of the road wheels, are of phosphor bronze. A special float wagon is sold by this company which should prove useful for some breweries where hogsheads or puncheons have to be handled at awkward delivery points, or where no crane is available for hoisting purposes.

Messrs. James Robertson and Son, of Dock Street Engineering Works, Fleetwood, are another firm of Steam Wagon builders to whom the same immediate disability applies—they have not supplied a wagon to a brewery. The successful running of the one supplied by them to Messrs. James Shoolhred and Company is proof that their machines will stand up to hard work in everyday use, and on all kinds of roads. This vehicle carries out all the long-distance furniture removal contracts for the great house in Tottenham Court Road, which service is not dissimilar in severity from some of the work which is embraced in brewery deliveries.

Messrs. E. S. Dindley and Son, of Bourton, Dorset, and is, Queen Victoria Street, E.C., are able to refer to a large number of users in several classes of heavy work, but, peculiarly enough, not

to a firm of brewers. It may not be out cf place to mention the performance of the machine sold by them to Messrs. Pickford. This may regularly be seen in London, both by night and day, carrying its 4 tons and hauling another 2 tons on a trailer. In a recent test at a London brewery, one of Messrs. Hindley's wagons delivered 307 barrels in a week, taking average runs of about seven miles.

The Hercules Steam Wagon Company, of I.evenshulme, Manchester, are another example. Their system has been worked out by Mr. W. Perkins, and includes several novel points of practical value. Most of this firm's experience has been gained during the last few years by the running of their vehicles over Lancashire cobbles, which constitute the hardest school in England and the cite which, in all probability, has evolved more tried machines—not to say men—than any.

Messrs. Clarkson, Ltd., of Moulsham Works, Chelmsford, have specialised in an engine and underframe particularly suitable for omnibus work, and the success of these machines in London, at Torquay, Worthing, and other places has been conspicuous. Their system is well adapted for 2-ton loads to be conveyed at greater speeds than usual, and it is evident that the development of a demand which is promising for such a type of vehicle will find them prepared to supply.

Other makers who call for mention are Carter's Steam Wagon Co., Oakenrod, Rochdale; Messrs. Richard Garrett and Sons, Ltd., Leiston, R.S.O., Suffolk ; the Glasgow Motor Lorry Co., Ltd., Igo, Crownpoint Road, Glasgow; Messrs. John Stewart and Son, Ltd., 22, Billiter Street, E.C. ; the Thames Iron Works Shipbuilding and Engineering Co., Ltd., Greenwich, S.E. ; Messrs. Turner, Atherton, and Co., Ltd., Denton, Manchester ; and the Cremorne Motor Mfg. Co., Lot's Road, Chelsea, S.W.

Internal Combustion.

The use of internal combustion is largely on the increase. It was very hard a few years ago to find men competent to drive these vehicles, but the makers have now met that difficulty by improving the machines to such a degree of simplicity that only gear-changing calls for a measure of training on the road. The old troubles with electric ignition have practically disappeared, and with them half the annoying roadside delays. First cost is still against this type of machine, as compared with steam, for loads above three tons, which weight appears to be the present useful and economical limit to this method of using petroleum spirit or paraffin. • Signs are not wanting that circumstances of production will strengthen the position of internal as opposed to external combustion, and that steam will be equalled in all respects for the heaviest loads But that day has not yet come, and buyers may for the present give a preference to steam without fear of being losers. The makers who have laid themselves out in earnest to cater for the trade in t-ton to 3-ton petroleum spirit vans and lorries are firmly stablished in the pleasure and touring car branches. Their experience began with the light car, and passed, step by step, to the greater weights required for touring purposes. Several years' work in these departments have provided the necessary knowledge for the natural growth which has now embraced delivery vans, omnibuses, and lorries. It is possible only to give a list of the leading builders, which

number embraces those who are able to supply any vehicle from a traveller's car to a 5-ton trolley :—The Wolseley Tool and Motor Car Co., Ltd.-, Adderley Park, Birmingham ; S. F. Edge, Ltd., za, New Burlington Street, W. ; he Simms Manufacturing Co., Ltd., Welbeck Works, Kimberley Road, Kilburn, N.W. ; the Mo-Car Syndicate, Ltd.., Paisley, N.B. ; the Albion Motor Car Co., Ltd., South Street, Scotstoun, Glasgow; Messrs. James and Browne, Ltd., 3g5, Oxford Street, W. ; Messrs. John I. Thornycroft and Co., Ltd., Chiswick, W. ; the N.A.G, Automobile Co. of Great Britain and Ireland, Ltd., raC), Great Portland Street, W. ; the Enfield Autocar Co., Enfield Works. Rediditch; the Putney Motor Co., Ltd., zoo, Upper Richmond Road, S.W. ; the Motor Car Emporium, Ltd., r, Addison Road North, Holland Park, W. ; the Hunslet Engine Co., Ltd., Hunslet En. gin e Works, Leeds; the Daimler Motor Co., ltd., Coventry ; Messrs, Humber, Ltd., Beeaton, Notts ; Dennis Bros., Ltd., Guildford ; Argyll Motors, Ltd., Hozier Street, Glasgow; the Maudslay Motor Co., Ltd., Coventry; and T. Coulthard and Co., Ltd., Cooper Road, Preston.


Steam vehicles invariably run on iron tyres, but many types of petrol vehicles require solid rubber or other elastic tyres on account of their greater speed and lighter mechanism. Every self-propelled vehicle brings about a call for various accessories and fittings, and it will interest users to know that their needs can be met after a perusal of the advertisement pages of "THE CONIMERCIAL MoToa." Tyres, lamps, clothing, tools, chains, steam pumps,

injectors, rotary pumps, lubricants,

fuels, van and wheelwright's work, ignition parts and accumulators, motor radiators and bonnets, tanks, automatic lubricators, spanners, lifting jacks, silencers, and many other useful oddments will there be found. Another point of some ;Merest is the question of insurance. Most users of heavy vehicles carry their own risk of damage to the vehicle by collision, as it is generally the person or thing struck that sufers. Heavy motor lor., lies have been known to come off best even after trying conclusions with tramcars ! It is the third party

risk, where claims by the public for either personal or material damage in volve both expense and time if undertaken by the ownn, that should be covered with one or other of the several companies which do this class of business.


We desire to take this opportunity of expressing our appreciation of the support which has been. accorded to us by the brewing industry. We are aware that brewery inane. gets are busily engaged

getting ready for the Spring trade, and it is distinctly encouraging to us that a request of the nature which we preferred, involving, as it frequently did, the taking of a special photograph and the abstracting of various records, should have found the sympathetic attention that has been accorded to it. Such a generous disclosure of results and figures can only serve to advance the use of commercial motors to a greater extent than any of us can properly gauge today. It will be found that many difficulties which have been experienced by users iii connection with their vehicles can be satisfactorily solved by a free interchange of experiences between them, and 'Tina COMMERCIAL MOTOR" will always be at the disposal of correspondents.

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