Opinions from Others.
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The Editor invites correspondence on all subjects connected with the use ol commercial motors. Letters should be on
one side of the paper only, and type-written by preference. The right of abbreviation is reserved, and no responsibility for the views exPi e3sed is accepted.
Agricultural Motor Trials.
The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[8221 Sir I—We have read with much interest, in this week's journal, your reference in a leading article to " Agricultural Motors in 1908." We notice that you raise the question as to the advisability of the Royal. Agricultural Society of England promoting trials in this country. We may state that, at the last general meeting of the Society, this important matter was put forward, and was referred to the Implement Committee. It is proposed to hold the trials at the Society's Show in Liverpool, in 1910, and the Implement Committee has the details of these trials under consideration, We hear that full particulars will be published in March or April of the New Year.--Yours faithfully, For THE IvEL AGRICULTURAL MOTORS, LIMITED, G. HOFFMANN, Manager,
Spare Wheels and Master Patents.
,Cur ex:mph-Lint is that nnothey IS months is to intervene, whikt 2.PLICh being acne more promptly elm:whom—En.] The Editor, " THE COMMF.RCIAL MOTOR."
[8231 Sir beg to thank you for the illustraibn, etc.,
you have given of Inv improved spare motor wheel. You are not quite correct in saying these wheels are being put on the market : the grant of the patent is being opposed, and this is delayingmatter's. The Stepney Spare Motor Wheel Co., Ltd., claims to have a master patent for all such appliances. With respect to your criticisms, I have a locking device which is somewhat novel, but I ant not anxious to publish it just yet. However, the fact that none of the nuts have ever worked loose shows that there is not much need for anything, although it will certainly be provided. As to creeping, this has been overcome by making the clamps extra wide (21 inches) and likewise the brackets; there is, thus, a wide herring surface upon the rim of the whoe], and, if there were any tendency to creep, the clamps would immediately lock the spare wheel—this is how I arrive at the fact that it has never crept an eighth of an inch. It could not possibly go so far, as the spokes of the wheel would interrupt its progress. I know of one form of spare wheel where the creeping business has been a real difficulty all along.—Yours truly, Sheffield. jNo. H. HALL.
Concerning Motorcabs.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[8241 Sir :—Mr. Sturmey, in returning to his attack on the four-cylinder engine for motorcab work, states that he "was speaking of cab service in general." I am glad to know that, because I had formed the idea that he could have thought only of London conditions when -he was drafting the article that has led to this correspondence. Had he confined his remarks to motorcabs for London, I should have been in agreement with him, for I certainly think that, upon metropolitan streets, a low-powered engine—one of, say, 8-toh.p.is quite equal to the job, and that such an engine might well be of the two-cylinder variety. In the Provinces, however, a higher-powered engine is absolutely necessary. Mr. Sturmey would increase the power by adding to the diameter of the cylinders, because he thinks that, " from the commercial point of view," the engine with two cylinders is the best type of motor. He volunteers the information that an addition of half-an-inch to the diameter of each of the two cylinders is attended by no appreciable increase in the weight of the engine; quite true, but does he realise that, by increasing the size of the cylinders from, say, four inches to four-and-a-half inches; the maximum stress due to the explosion will he increased by about 25 per cent., and that this higher stress is transmitted through every part of the driving gear to the road wheels? The result is, as I pointed out in my last letter to you, that the 'fatigue " point of the ma
terial is reached much sooner than would be the case if the increased power were obtained by an addition to the number of the cylinders, which, by the way, could be proportionately smaller in diameter.
The rate of petrol consumption may be higher with a fourcylinder engine than with one having only two cylinders, but that should not he the only point to bc considered by either the maker or the operator when looking at the matter from " the commercial point of view." No two-cylinder engine of t5h.p. and upwards can be made to run with sufficient regularity and smoothness to satisfy the majority of motorcab patrons, although such an engine may give perfectly satisfactory results when fitted in a van or lorry chassis, the construction of which is heavier, and, therefore, better able to absorb the higher impulses due to the explosions within the cylinders. On the question of the relative damage done to tires, Mr. Sturmey says " he has never yet been able to find any reliable information which would lead him to believe that there is anything in it." I would suggest that he obtains from some reputable tire maker two quotations for tire maintenance for motorcabs : one for two-cylinder cabs, and one for four-cylinder cabs, all of which are, however, of exactly the same horse-power. I think that he will then obtain SOME " reliable information." • Again, in reference to the four. cylinder type of engine, Mr. Sturmey states that" no amount of argument will explain away the fact that there are twice the number of working parts. What about crankshaft, camshafts, timing gears, water pumps, etc, ? Come, Mr. Sturmey, that is not argument : take off those smoked glasses of yours—they obscure your vision, and act as mirrors, reflecting only that which is uppermost in yew mind.
I am interested in neither the manufacture nor running oi nimorcabs of any kind, and I hold no brief for the four. cylinder engine, but I shudder at the thought of riding in z taxicab that is propelled aloneby means of a two-cylindet 2oh.p. engine; yet we should have to be content with such machines in the provincial towns if Mr. Sturmey controlleC the market.—Yours faithfully, GEOFFRY WALT-At:E.
Richmond, 2nd January, 1909.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[825] Sir :—Your correspondent R. J. Williams favours tht four-cylinder cab as against the two, and asks why cab prac. tice should be different from car practice. We will tell him. simply because a cab has to be run at a profit, and a cal has not. Were it otherwise, we might use six-cylinder cab: with 36-inch wheels, five-inch tires, and other fitments whicY go for comfort arid luxurious travel. But the cab is a corn. mercial vehicle, and must be made to pay its owner, and tht margin is so narrow for this that every detail has to IN considered to this end:
It is true there is a little more commotion under au bonnet with a two-cylinder engine than with a four, lot about two seconds when starting and when taking a stif grade on the low gear; but, if a cab is properly propon tioned as to power and gearing, there will be very little the latter, and practically all driving will be " on the top,' and then t9 people out of 20 could not tell whether two a four cylinders were running, whilst, as to the starting, any thing disagreeable is no more than, if as much as, dux caused by changing gear, and that, with most cabs, is beirg done constantly, and Mr. Williams apparently either doe: not notice it, or ignores it as an unpleasant fact which mus be endured.
A district must be indeed exceptional which calls for mon than r8 or 20h.h.p. in a cab, and where this is the cast we doubt very much if a motorcab will pay ; until this h.p requirement is passed, there is certainly no call for mor4 than two cylinders in the engine. As manufacturers, we an prepared to build cabs with engines having either two or foul dinders, and indeed at the present time have quotations it for both types. As manufacturers, also, we would prefer I sell the four-eylindered models, because the price is higher ad there is more profit in them for us, but we cannot nore the financial aspect of the situation, so far as our tstomers are concerned, and they are not as a rule running tbs. " for their health," however much that may be Mr. filliams' quest in riding in them, and all experience goes ) show that all the probabilities of financial success rest ith the two-cylindered vehicle, whereas with four it is roblematical. It is immaterial to us which the buying ublic select.
As we have no wish for undue advertisement we simply
Ascribe ourselves66 MAK-Eas OF Rorti.
bout Working Coats.
The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[820] Sir :--On page 308 of your issue of theI ultimo, Answers u.IL.9102 " Answers to Queries," is a very interesting letter (No.
349) on the working costs of a Milnes-Daimler lorry. This ;particularly interesting, because I happen to know that the chicle was bought secondhand, from the Isle of Wight, ad that it had previously run 30,000 miles. It was, thereare, by no means new, and it could not be expected that epairs would be as low as in the first six months of the .fe of a new vehicle. The law working costs inay be to a reat extent explained by the fact that the owner is careul to see that the load never exceeds three tons. Many my owners cannot be brought to realise the great expense aused by occasional heavy overloads. The damage due o this cause is not always visible at the moment, but it hows itself later on in fractured transmission gear, badlyut wheel hushes, strained steering gear, and similar items rf expense which swell the maintenance charge. I always refer to turn the figures into " per car-mile," because it is fbviously unfair to compare the cost per ton-mile with yetides of different sizes. The working costs of a three-ton orry are far short of double that of a 14-ton lorry, and, &hough every increase in the size undoubtedly means an ncrease in the cost, it is by no means a proportionate inTease. If the owner of the Milnes-Daimler lorry in ques
ion were to work two ils-ton lorries, he would find his cost )er ton-mile very considerably increased, and therefore it is infair to speak in either case of the cost per tonaniks as >eine,the cost of motor cartage.
This particular chassis was a standard omnibus chassis, tad therefore the cost per car-mile running with goods ;hould make a very interesting comparison to the costs now ktained in the working of motor omnibuses on similar aauntry journeys, so I have tabulated : (A), the costs as
;applied by the lorry owner ; (B), the costs published for the Bath Tramway Company's motor omnibuses; and (C), costs )1atained on another omnibus service working with similar vehicles :— A comparison of these figures will show that the wages loom unduly high for the lorry, and this must la, due to the fact that a considerable time is spent loading and unloading, and that the daily mileage is therefore small. In fact, from the figures given, the average daily mileage is only 25, whereas omnibuses are expected, even in the country, to do three times this mileage daily. Next, the petrol consumption is too high, but this may very well be due lo the fact that the original Milnes-Daimler carburetters were far from economical. The owner, therefore, would do well to purchase one of the latest type of Milnes-Daimler carburetters, which can be fitted to the 3olf.p. Milnes-Daimler without alteration, and he will see a marked economy in petrol consumption. The oil and grease is also much too high, so much so that one may conclude that the vehicle invariably leaves a trail of smoke across the country. The tire cost is low, and this is probably due to the fact that the owner has only recorded the purchase of one front tire during the six months; if his tires were maintained on contract, or if the tire costs were averaged twina period of two or three years, it would be found to come to something between 1.7d. and 2d. The maintenance is also very small, as the repairs have been light during this half-year; when averaged over a longer period, they will undoubtedly appear higher, but a figure of I.8d. would not be unreasonable, and, in estimating for the future, the owner should reckon that the repairs would average up to this figure. Sundries is one of the annoying items of cost that will mount up, and which every owner must watch with extreme care. The figure o.5td. does not appear to be unreasonable.
The Editor has already pointed out, on page 308, that the depreciation has been taken at too high a rate, but, if the owner had taken it at 1.75d. it would probably be fairer, taking into consideration the low initial cost of this secondhand vehicle.
I can assure you, Sir, that figures of this kind interest me greatly as an owner.—Yours truly,
"SOUTH COAST."
Kent Bridges.
The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
18271 Sir :—With reference to the paragraph in your last week's issue on the subject of "Kent Bridges," we would like to point out that the arrangement with the South Eastern and Chatham Railway Company was an amicable one. It was pointed out to us that the bridge at New Eltham Station was in an unsafe condition, anti we at once agreed to the Railway Company's suggestion that two omnibuses should not pass on the bridge, and that the drivers should be cau tioned to proceed at a slow speed. The bridge has now, however, been reconstructed, and the traffic proceeds quite in the ordinary way. We write you thus to correct the impression, that there had been some dispute between the Railway Company and ourselves, which might be gathered from your paragraph.—
Yours faithfully, THOMAS TILLING,
W. WOLSEY, JR., Managing Director. Winchester House, Peckham, S.E.
[We are glad to give publicity to the fact that them W89 at no time any dispute or iLl-(eeling, but we serIougly question the whole attitude of the S.E. and C. By. in regard to the notices which are being erected.--Mr, The Technical Press and Foreign Sales.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
18281 Sir :--With reference to the letter of "
appearing in your issue of the -17th December, we are of the opinion that the technical Press reporting on organised trials do definitely bring before foreign users the merits or demerits of vehicles competing in such trials, and we have proof of this.
In reference to the three-speed-gear type of Broom and NVade lorry, all Broom and Wade lorries are now fitted with a three-speed gear, and we can show 25 to 30 per cent. saving in consumption with the latter type of lorry now on the road, as compared with our consumption in the Royal Automobile Club's Commercial Vehicle Trials.
We have the honour to be, dear Sir, your obedient ser vants, T. C. AvEttsc. AND CO., LIMITED. Birmingham. The Better Protection of Drivers.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[829] Sir :—" Humanity " merits the gratitude of all motor drivers for his sympathy and able letter published in your issue of the 24th December. It is only a driver that can folly appreciate all that he says, and unfortunately I happen to be one. In stating, as he does, that better provision should be made for the drivers of motorbuses and taxicabs, to protect us from the cold and rain, he points out exactly what we all feel. It is no exaggeration to say that under the present arrangements the life of the motor driver is for the most part simply miserable.—Yours faithfully, T. MANSER.
Motor Mails in the Recent Blizzard.
In view of the great iNibtie interest taken in the rnotor-torne parcel mails dortng the snoafall of last week, we invited communi. cations from the G .P.O. and several contractors, :These ar tublish, toc-ether with filre other letter.] The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
fS3o1 Sir :—I am directed by the Postmaster-General to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 31st ultimo, and to state that, although there were some irregularities on the motor mail services during the recent bad weather, the working was more satisfactory than might have been anticipated. may add that only one of the motor mail serviees working from London had to be suspended.
am, Sir, Your obedient servant, G. A. ameEsnorr.
General Post. Office, London.
The Editor, "TILE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
1831] Sir :—With reference to your enquiry re our motor mail vans, the Southampton performed the service satisfactorily during the heavy weather, but some slight delay occurred to the Portsmouth coach on Butt's Hill, through the heavy drifts. The machines ran splendidly.—Yours truly, For MCNAMARA & CO., La-n., A. V. WILLMOTT, Secretary. 12, Castle Street, Finsbury, E.C.
The Editor, " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
18321 Sir :—We have pleasure in informing you that we have succeeded in carrying through the heavy Christmas traffic to Cambridge without any loss whatever. The conditions of the road and the heavy loads have been a very great strain both on the cars and on the drivers, but the drivers on these services being extraordinarily good men tackled the job with spirit and have come through without any loss.
Last night, one of the drivers had a very bad experience. Leaving Cambridge at the usual time, after proceeding some distance on the road, the snow which had fallen— having been trampled down—froze, and then the rain on top made it well-nigh impossible for him to proceed, and at several places in the steepest parts of the hills the vehicle would run backwards rather than forwards. The driver, with the help of the village constables, covered the road from Welwyn Gas Works, with ashes, and by so doing they managed to arrive in London two hours late on their scheduled time. This performance, under the most trying circumstances possible, we suggest reflects great credit on the drivers for sticking to their work. This particular van coining from Cambridge was very heavily laden, especially on the top, and the driver describes the roads as being something terrible. With this exception, the services for the last twelve months have been maintained with the smallest possible lose, and it would be a fair statement to say that the motorvan is the only possible way that communication could have been so kept between London and Cambridge during the last few. weeks with the stress of weather which we have experienced.—Yours faith
fully, For MILNES-DAIMLER, LTD. H. C.i. Buxeoan, Managing Director.. 221, Tottenham Court Road, W., est January, 1909.
:Reference was made, in the course_ or the recent paper before the Roya Automobile Club, to the negligible lose on this service. That ite record: should have IJOL1 so splendidly maintained during tile heavy oilman, thi supervening frost, and the rapid thaw which followed is very gratifying We heartily endorse Mr. l5t,rimds appreciations for the drivers.-Eo.I The Editor, "TEE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[833] Sir :—Replying to your wire received to-day, I have pleasure in informing von that the recent snow caused ver!, little inconvenience or 'delay to my motor mail services. We didn't get such a heavy fall as in some other parts of Eng. land (should say about three or four inches, last Tuesday was the worst day), and even then it only caused delay, or one very steep hill, one morning when the rear wheel could not get a grip of the road, and the driver lost ahoui io minutes. For the next morning's journey, I gave hitt a chain to put round the rear wheels and tires, and \vitt these on we had no difficulty whatever on any hill, Except on steep hills, five or six inches of snow seem tc make no difference, and I am informed that the motors kep very much better time that the horse mails did in the district
I have now been runningthese motor mail services foi two years, and they have given general satisfaction ; in fact
have secured the contracts for another two vears.—Your faithfully, J. J. \Valour. Dereliam, Norfolk.
The Editor, "Tun COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
[834J Sir :—In reply to your letter, the motor mail van: have been working very satisfactorily during the recent bat weather, and, although those vans working on such ion journeys as London and Dover and London and !Tasting: lost, in one or two cases, nearly an hour, that was the exten of the trouble, except on Friday, when, owing to the thar which set in, a little more delay was occasioned on the steel hills by reason of the wet snow being so slippery that th, wheels could not obtain a grip. However, in no case dur ing the whole of the bad weather has a journey been lost the greatest trouble being a little delay. We think that thi speaks wonderfully well for the vans and the men.
As you are aware, we are now running services from Eon don to the following places :—Brighton, Ipswich, East bourne, Hastings, Dover, Ramsgate, and Reading, and ii the early spring we are starting a new service between I.on don and Oxford.—Yours faithfully,
THOMAS TILLING, LTD.,
W. WOLSEY, JR., Managing Director.
Winche.eiter House, Peckham, S.E.
The Editor, "TILE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
18351 Sir :—Recognising your paper as the one which gee to users of vans and lorries, I write to express my admirtion for the way the mail vans went through here last weel; The snow first, and then the slush, was very bad, but the were "on time " nearly every night. I can assure you thc everybody was amazed that they got along so splendidh when horses were no good. It is all very well to b "clever," and to say motors are no good in snow : they di their work best of all, and the drivers seemed to enjoy thei experiences. Where drifts are bad, I fear they must hav had real trouble.—Yours, etc.,
" PORTSMOUTH ROAD." Esher,