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23rd September 2004
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Which of the following most accurately describes the problem?

Brian Weatherley talks to John Harvey — "Mr Tibbett & Britten" — about John Allan, Euro 2004 and life after the Exel takeover...

Despite all his protestations, John Harvey is, was, and ever more shall be Mr Tibbett & Britten. As we watch him approach for our interview there's no mistaking the magnificent white quiff, the trademark glasses and the "let's get down to business" manner.

It's also hard to believe that after all this time at the helm he lost out to Exel in the battle for T&B. We refrain from mentioning this, however: like Old Father William, 69-year-old Harvey still has the kind of energy which could happily accommodate the tossing of a journalist (or analyst) down the stairs.

After a brisk handshake he hands us two business cards. The first bears a Tiblaett & Britten logo and the legend "John A Harvey CBE" (he promptly takes it back and crosses out the word "chairman' with a fountain pen). The second sports an Exel logo and "John A Harvey CBE, Strategic Advisor".

Our first question is obvious: what will he be advising Exel boss John Allan on, and what is the exact nature of his 'advisory' capacity? "It's opaque!" retorts Harvey with a wry smile. "No, I think it's an arrangement of mutual convenience. I don't think it right, proper or sensible that I should join Exel — I'm not even sure that they'd want me — but I do think there's value to be added for my former customers. Exel's present customers, in giving some continuity of management experience."

Then, he suggests, there's always the possibility to "perhaps tell Exel about the mistakes I made and some of the things that might work there. I think I chose the phrase and John Allan was kind enough to accept it. I've a piece of paper which says my duties are to act as the strategic advisor to the chief executive and his regional colleagues, and at the moment that's what Ism doing when asked."

Talents

By his own admission Harvey is reluctant to play Banquo's Ghost to Allan's Macbeth: "He [Banquo] didn't speak, whereas I never stop — so that clearly doesn't fit me as a title! But I think you shouldn't hang around. I don't suppose it will last for a very long time but so long as it has any use for my talents then I'm happy to fill the role."

It's not easy for us to define Harvey's relationship with Allan:"robust" is probably as good as any although he pays tribute to Allan's communication skills:"I went out for a day with John,we went to eight depots, and I walked with the man. He turned off his mobile phone and he gave himself entirely to the day in the field. When you see a CEO get on the shop floor and people on the shop floor warm to them you recognise in somebody else some of the qualities you hope you have in yourself."

But is it really true that Allan called him during the England vs France Euro 2004 clash to say that a bid from Exel was on its way? Correct, says Harvey:"Although I'm no soccer fan I would greatly have preferred to watch that than to listen to John Allan — and you can quote me on that!"

Whatever the timing, the call hardly came out of the blue: "There have been a series of overtures for several years and no surprises," Harvey concedes."Exel aren't alone; we've had conversations over the past five or six years with most major forwarding groups, several private equity houses; mainland European, North American and Asian guys."

However, despite believing that T&B had an independent future, Harvey reckons the company "shot itself in the foot" with recent events. Having created a successful US operation through organic growth, somewhat uncharacteristically T&B then bought a logistics company in Mexico to bolster its North American operations. Although initially profitable, the Mexican operation ultimately went sour and this impacted on T&B 's earnings — much to the annoyance of analysts. "If we'd have had another six months," Harvey believes, "we'd have been out of the woods. We were clearly vulnerable, and Exel's strategic timing was absolutely excellent.

However, his initial response is bestdescribed as unequivocal:"! did say to John and John Coghlan [Exel's deputy chief executive and group finance director] 'piss off... unfortunately I said it in public!" Harvey admits with a grin. -But I would have done exactly the same thing had I been them.! think their timing was abso lutely right and I admire professionalism —but not being the object of it!

"I said to him, 'I can tell you now that at that price the answer is no. But obviously I will go back to the board.' We discussed it with our advisors and then 48 hours later we had agreed a higher price and a different situation, and reluctantly commended it."The successful offer was officially worth £328m although interest ingly no one seems to know what Exel's original offer was.

But Harvey refuses to indulge in sentimental `might-have-beens':" Oh come off it! At the end of the day in my job as chairman I've got to do what's right for the shareholders and if the business was to be sold Exel were the right people to sell it to. It's the old Chinese thing— do you want your arm chopped off or your leg? It's better than your head!"

Continuing this theme. Harvey describes Exel's decision to drop the T&B name as "sad, but inevitable. I told people if! were in Exel I'd re-brand the entire company as Exel. They will and they are.Tibbett & Britten bought companies and we changed their names. We live in a world of global brands and international service providers —that's the harsh reality."

There are suggestions from some that a merger with another company might have savedT&B from Exel's grasp, but Harvey gives this idea short shrift:" We had no problem with any of our customers. No one ever said to us .you're too small', or 'you lack the capability', but the stock market is a different issue. Has Tesco got a critical mass? Terry Leahy [Tesco's CEO] famously once said to his own board, `we're called a global player — we're a global prey' and I think that will be true of anybody."

Something for Exel and Allan to consider perhaps? •


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