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Correspondence.

13th September 1906
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Page 19, 13th September 1906 — Correspondence.
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Which of the following most accurately describes the problem?

Including Letters Officially Communicated by the Chairman, M.V.W.O.U.A.

" Experientia Docet."

The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL Moroa."

Sir :—Hitherto we were rather sceptical as to the economy of using a motor van in our business, but we must confess that we now hold a contrary opinion, after having for the past four months successfully used a.5-cwr. van which we purchased from the Simms Manufacturing Company, Limited, of Kilburn. We formerly delivered our goods by means of three carrier tricycles, Carter, Paterson, and the Parcels Delivery Company, but the motor van has not only displaced all of these, but, in addition, now collects a quantity of raw material for our use. Since it has been running we have not had a single involuntary stop, neither has it been necessary to effect any repairs whatever, notwithstanding the fact that the driver, previous to driving this van, had never had any experience whatever with motors.

Taking into consideration the cost of running this van, including, of course, depreciation, we anticipate a consider able saving over our former methods, in addition to which we can now boast of a very expeditious delivery. Our experience has convinced us that most firms now employing horses to do their work would find it considerably more economical to use a motor vehicle, provided, of course, a proper machine is selected from a reliable firm and having due regard to the work that is to be done. We send a photograph of our van and trust the foregoing experience may be of interest to your readers.—Yours faithfully, LAWRENCE & AITKEN.

Kimberley Road, Willesden Lane, London, N.W., September irth, 19(16.

The Van Trials Deadlock.

The Editor, "THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."

Sir :—I am strongly of opinion that there is no necessity whatever for the proposed van trials, as it is now a solved problem that motor wagons, vans, etc., are a commercial success. There are now ample facilities for a prospective buyer to ascertain which is the most suitable vehicle for his purpose, and 1 doubt whether either manufacturers or users care about trials, which are not unanimously accepted as being reliable. At the same time, T regret very much that the Automobile Club has taken up the antagonistic position of wanting to dominate all sections of the trade. They ought to be satisfied with their own position as a central board, and they really ought to see the fairness, advisability, and capability of each section doing its own work. There is, indeed, plenty of work to do for all sections of the industry, both for manufacturers and users, in watching the drafting of legislation for rules and regulations appertaining to motors generally. Therefore it is important that all sec

tions should try to work and pull together. If the Automobile Club cannot see the advisability of doing so, it is most unfortunate for all branches of the motor industry.

Instead of running trials on the lines mentioned, I would suggest that the Association organise a competition amongst the drivers for the best performances during, say, 6 or xr months, on least cost of upkeep, repairs, fuel, water Consumption, etc. This would have a tendency to add to the efficiency of vehicles, and owners would only be too pleased to encourage their drivers in such competitions, as it is, obviously, most to their own interest. There is no doubt the results would form interesting reading in the papers.—

Yours faithfully, CHARLES DAVI ES. Alderley Edge, Cheshire, September 3rd, igo6.

Sir :--As a user of steam wagons for some years I certainly consider the Motor Van, Wagon and Omnibus Users' Association should be strongly represented on any trials of vans and wagons, or that our association should themselves run the trials without any help from the A.C.G.B.T.— Yours faithfully, JAMES PUTMAN. Bicester Road, Aylesbury, Bucks, September 7th, igo6.

Sir :—As users or a tractor for nearly two years, we are strongly of opinion that any trials made with vehicles of this kind would be absolutely useless from a trade point of view, unless it can be assured that the committee organising the trials is a thoroughly representative one; this, of course, will not be the case under the present condition of affairs. The Automobile Club is certainly not the body, in our opinion, that would be competent to judge in the heavy class of trade motor vehicles.—Yours faithfully, W. T. WRIGHT & CO., LTD.,

W. H. WRIGHT, Managing Director_ Albion, Phoenix, and Barrow End Brick Works, Sileby, August 31st, 1906_

Sir :—Tt appears to me that the progress of commercial motors is to be hampered for some reason or other, and as those vehicles are of far more importance than pleasure cars to the trade of this country, and seeing that the membership of the Motor Van, Wagon, and Omnibus Users' Association is likely to increase by leaps and bounds during the next few years, I am of the opinion that we should remove all restrictions by severing our connection with the Automobile Club, and, thereby, enable our committee to have a free hand in arranging for trials, shows, or anything else which would be conducive to progress with all kinds of commercial motors.—Yours faithfully, THE SCOTTISH FARMERS' DAIRY CO.,

A. BEARDSLEY. Glasgow, September 7th, igo6.

Sir :—We have been looking forward to the van trials, and have been expecting to obtain valuable information from them; we regret, therefore, very much that there should be any difficulty in arranging them.

While we consider that the trials would be best conducted hy the joint committee of the Automobile Club of Great Britain and Ireland and the Motor Van, Wagon, and Omnibus Users' Association, we should prefer to see the trials conducted by either body alone if they cannot work together. We, however, think that the difference of opinion between the Users' Association and the Club is most regrettable, and hope that a separation may still be avoided.—Yours ARTHUR J. CLAY.

(Director, Bass, Ratcliff and Gretton, Ltd.) Burton-on-Trent, September 7th, .igo6. Sir :—I am of opinion that the proposed van, lorry, and tractor trials by the Automobile Club are not likely to be of any service to users of these vehicles under the suggested conditions of the Club. It is absolutely essential that persons having commercial experience of heavy haulage should take a prominent part in such trials for them to be of any general service.—Yours faithtully, ARTHUR E. COLLINS, City Engineer. Norwich, September 8th, igo6.

Sir :—We are of opinion that it would be wise to take advantage of the °her of Messrs. Carter, Paterson and Messrs. Pickford, but, whether the management of these trials is credited to the Motor Van, Wagon, and Omnibus Users' Association or to the Automobile Club, seems, to us, a matter of indifference. What is wanted is a fair trial of reliability, under service conditions, of the vehicles that are likely to be most called for in the near future.—Yours faith

fully, For COMMERCIAL CARS, LIMITED, JULIAN HALFORD, Managing Director. Biscot Road, Luton,

September 6th, 1906.

Sir :—We are most strongly of opinion that the trials should be held in conjunction with the Motor Van, Wagon, and Omnibus Users' Association, which is made up of the people most interested in the trials and in the conditions under which they should be held. We should have thought that the Automobile Club would have welcomed the assistance of the Association. We think that the best results would be obtained by the united efforts of the Club, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, and the Motor Van, Wagon, and Omnibus Users Association.—Yours

faithfully, For J. LIVERSIDGE & SON, LTD.,

P. B. LIVERSIDGE, Director.

196, Old Street, London, E.C., September 7th, lob.

An Official Letter.

Sir :—J beg to inform you that a large number of replies have been received in answer to the circular letter which has been recently sent out to all the members of our Association, and which was signed by me, as chairman of the Committee, in which they were informed of the attitude assumed by the Committee of the Automobile Club in regard to the commercial vehicle trials, and a copy of which has been already published by you. The replies already received in every case strongly approve and confirm the action of the Committee of the Association, and, in most cases, the Committee is recommended that if it cannot arrange to carry out the trials in co-operation with the Automobile Club that they should be carried out in the name of this Association acting by itself.—Yours faithfully, R. E. CROMPTON.

Thripinnds, Kensington Court, W., September 7th, 1906.

From Members, M.V.W.O.U,A.

THE SECRETARY, J. NimMO AND SON, LIMITED, Castle Edell, CO. Durham, writes:—" We are quite of your opinion."

THE MANAGING DIRECTOR, HALL AND COMPANY, CROYDON, Lim-rim, Victoria Wharf, Croydon, writes :—" Tt is my opinion that you have acted in the right spirit for the users and the

trade, which will benefit by the results Surely a joint committee would be much the fairest way of doing things."

MR. GEORGE HORN, KCITIpSt0/1 Mills, Bedford, wiites:—"We certainly agree with you in the attitude you have taken up. . If the Automobile Club is not prepared to recognise our Association in the matter of the heavy vehicle trials, the Committee should consider if it is not possible to organise these themselves."

MESSRS. HARDY AND SON, a and 5, Catherine Street, Salisbury, write :—" The course adopted is entirely approved of by us. . . . our impression is that the Automobile Club deliberately tries to hinder the interests of commercial vehicles, in order to have the roads more free for pleasure cars. . . We are open to buy one or more 30cwt. vehicles as soon as we are satisfied as to their reliability!'

THE SECRETARY, NICHOLSON AND SONS, LIMITED, brewers and wine merchants, Maidenhead, writes :—" We quite agree with the position you have taken up, and think that we should carry out commercial motor trials on our own account, independently of the Automobile Club. The Association knows far more about business vehicles than the Automobile Club . . . we strongly think that the Association should remain affiliated to the Club."

MR. W. A. CateknitE, 8a, Allendale Road, Denmark Ilill, S.F.., writes :—" It .has seemed to me all along that this, die. tinctly, was not a matter for the Automobile Club to deal with, and that, therefore, any trials conducted by them would not have any weight with users.

. . . It appears manifest that the Users' Association is the proper one to carry out these trials. I do not think that the Automobile Club can reasonably be expected to be greatly interested in the subject, and, on the whole, I think that any trials they might hold should be supplemented by trials on the part of the Association."

MR. W. A. Ponc, furniture remover and contractor, of 53 and 55, Ford

Street, Kettering, writes T heartily endorse the action of the Committee in the matter, for this is a subject in which we are far more interested than the Automobile Club, and, for that reason, I think it only fair that we should have an equal representation on the Trials Committee. . . I do think it much the best to work in harmony with the Automobile Club, if it is at all possible, but, if they will not be more reasonable in their attitude towards this Association than they now are, 1think the sooner we dissolve partnership the better."

MR. CHARLES WHEELER, 6, Stanley Road, Watford, writes :— '" You have my entire support in this joint committee business. There would appear to be a little too much "dog-in-the-manger " air about the Automobile Club's action."

MR. W. H. Wa.a.cox, W. II. WILLCOX AND COMPANY, LIMITED, 23, Southwark Street, SE., writes:—' I have carefully noted the contents of your letter of August 24th, and in every way support the committee of the Association in their action."

THE CHIEF ENGINEER, Sorni METROPOLITAN GAS COMPANY, 709, ()Id Kent Road, S.E., writes I think if our Association is not able to carry out the trials in question on its own account, it is not fulfilling the objects for which it was formed."

THE SECRETARY, JOHN RICHARDSON AND COMPANY, LEICESTER, LIMITED, Friar Lane, Leicester, writes :—" The only advantage which probably accrues by the connection of your Association with the Club is the strength of the latter's finances in case of need."

MESSRS. C. II, WrrtiEttiNozoN AND Sam, Sunning Mills, near Reading, write Our interests are not identical with those of the Automobile Club, and we ought to be strong enough to manage our own affairs. . . . Let Us stand on our own merits."

Ma. H. BARROW, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF BARROW'S STORES, LIMITED, Birmingham, writes :—" We consider that it would he a very great advantage to sever the connection of the Association with the Automobile Club in matters which exclusively concern business vehicles."

Ma. T. NEWDEGIN JOHNSON, 3, Ada Crescent, Hexham, writes : —" The course adopted by the Committee meets with my approval. I do not think we gain any advantage from connection with the Automobile Club, and I consider that the support of the commercial motor trade would be given to trials conducted by the Association."

MR. JOHN A. LEY, Walton-le-Dale, Preston, writes —"I think the interests of all concerned would he best served by a proportionately-elected committee of the Club and the Association. It the Club will not be reasonable, T should notify them that we have seriously to consider our position. At the same time, I think our Association is the gainer by the action of the Automobile Club."

THE ASSISTANT MANAGER, STOTHERT AM) Pin', LIMITED, engineers, Bath, writes :—" The course adopted by the committee of your Association has our approval, and we should think it would be a good thing to take steps to carry out corn• mercial motor trials on your own account. . . We think that the Association would be much stronger if hacked up by the Automobile Club."

Ma. GEORGE W. LowcocK, M.I.E.E., 57, King Street, Manchester, writes :—" Whilst agreeing with your procedure, I would have gone furilier at the outset, and, for the purposes of this Association, dissociated yourselves from the Automobile Club. The Club and this Association exist for entirely different purposes, and we have to look at the whole matter of trials from purely a commercial standpoint."

THE ENGINEER, BUTLER AND COMPANY, LIMITED, Springfield Brewery, Wolverhampton, writes :—" We fully approve of the course adopted by the Committee. Surely the Motor Van, Wagon, and Omnibus Users' Association should be in a strong position as regards conducting trials, after the experience gained in the Liverpool trials of 1898, 1899, and 1901, at the two latter of which I had the pleasure of being present."

MR. JAMES PUTMAN, sack and cloth manufacturer and camp furnisher, Bicester Road, Aylesbury, writes :—" I entirely agree with your views about the van trials, and cannot see what advantage we users gain by being in the hands of the Automobile Club. The Club evidently is not capable of carrying out any successful trials of motor vans and lorries, and I consider our Association should carry out their own without the Club's help."

THE SECRETARY, mr.. MOTOR DELIVERY COMPANY, LIMITED, Belfast Chambers, Beak Street, Regent Street, W., writes —"I regret that the Automobile Club has taken this line. It seems hard that the users should be kept waiting when it is so necessary that they should have some reliable data to go on when purchasing van chassis, and I think the Club very much to blame. The Association certainly ought to carry out trials on its own account, and as soon as possible."

MESSRS. WORDIE AND COMPANY, carriers, 75, West Nile Street, Glasgow, write:—" As your Association owes its origin to the Automobile Club, it must of necessity be guided by the parent body. As, however, the Association was formed to look after its special branch of motor vehicles, it seems to us unreasonable that the Club should refuse the Assocation equal representation in the control of the trials of vehicles of that particular class. Certainly, if these trials were conducted under the joint auspices of the Club and the Association, they would have more weight in the eyes of the public than if either of these bodies acted independently of the other. We hope it is not yet too late to have the dispute settled." THE SECRETARY, CLAYTON, SON, AND COMPANY, LIMITED, Hunslet, Leeds, writes :—" We have to say that we are of opinion that our Association would he better worked apart from the Automobile Club."

THE SECRETARY, TIIE ACME FLOORING AND PAVING COMPANY (1904), LIMITED, Gainsborough Road, Victoria Park, N.E., writes :—" We quite approve of your action with regard to the Automobile Club. We cannot see any objection to trials carried on outside that Club."

MR. J. PARKER, PARKER BROTHERS (MILDENHALL), LIMITED, Mildenhall, Suffolk, writes :—" We are of opinion it would be better for the two Associations to run together if possible ; at the same time, we do not think the connection with the Automobile Club of much practical benefit to the users of motor vans and wagons.

MR. DOUGT.AS MACKENZIE, A.M.I.MEcri.E., 109, Victoria Street, Westminster, writes :—" The action of the Committee meets with my cordial approval, and I think that the Association should undertake commercial vehicle trials, but I think it possible that we might with advantage arrange for trials at any time, under service conditions, in preference to one contemporaneous series of trials."

THE SECRETARY AND MANAGER, WINNINGTON, NORTHWICH AM) DISTRICT CO-OPERATIVE SOCIETY, LIMITED, writes :—" My Board unanimously support your isolation from the Automobile Club. They consider it is no use whatever to commercial vehicles, and that more progress will be made in these if you remain a separate association, the object of which is the advancement of commercial vehicles only."

THE MANAGING DIRECTOR, SEABROOE.E AND SONS, LIMITED, Thorrock Brewery, Grays, Essex, writes :—" I quite agree with the course that has been adopted by the Committee, and I du not consider, nor have for some time past, that our Association gains by any connection with the Automobile Club in matters which exclusively concern commercial vehicles. I am inclined to think that the sooner the two associations separate the better."

MR, A. A. CAMPBELL SWINTON, M.I.E.E., 66, Victoria Street, S.W., writes :—" It seems to me only reasonable that the trials should be conducted by a joint committee, and I, therefore, entirely approve of the course that has been adopted by the Association.. I should be in favour of the Association's carrying out trials of its own . . . providing the Automobile Club persist in what appears to me the unreasonable position fhat they have taken up."

MR. C. H. WATKINS, HAMILTON AND COMPANY (LONDON), LIMITED, 116-118, Clerkenwell Road, E.C., writes :—" We quite agree with the action you have taken in regard to the matter of commercial motor trials. We see no reason why it should not be possible for the trials to be carried out independently of the Automobile Club . . . it does not appear to us that the Association gains much by the connection with the Automobile Club in regard to commercial motors."

MR. T. B. BROWNE, JAMES AND BROWNE, LIMITED, Westcroft Works, King Street, Hammersmith, writes :—" I am strongly of opinion that it would be to the best advantage of both the till& and users if a joint committee were formed. . We shall take the first opportunity of entering any public competition carried out under proper rules, and likely to be recognised by users as giving a fair criterion of the respective merits of the different vehicles on the market, so that you may rely upon my company's supporting you in your proposal. At the same time, I think it is a very great pity that the Automobile Club cannot be brought into line in this matter, as they are the recognised body on motor competition rules. I therefore consider that no effort should be spared in endeavouring to bring about a combined committee, as originally proposed, before proceeding with the alternative."

MR. II. HOWARD HUMPHREYS, M.INST.C.E., NLINsT.MELH.E., 28, Victoria Street, Westminster, S.W., writes :—" I very much regret to hear that there is such a serious impasse between the Club and the Association. . . It is rather hard to realism that the Club can be so imbued by a sense of its own impor. tance that it can consider itself the only authority on every class of self-propelled vehicle. Supposing we carry the matter a little further, and imagine, for a moment, that the Traction Engine Association was in some way affiliated to the Club. do not really think that the trials conducted by the Club under such circumstances would be taken very seriously by users and prospective users of road locomotives. At the same time, I think that it will be worth while to make one further effort

to get the Club to take a more reasonable attitude . . but, if the next effort fails, I think that the only self-respecting course for the Association will he to break away from the Club, and to push out vigorously for itself. . . Failing arrangements with the Club, I should certainly advocate it, and carry out the cornmercial motor trials on our own account."


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