Correspondence.
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Motor Threshers; and Tractors versus Motor Wagons.
The Editor " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR
Sir :--We notice in a recent issue of your journal (21st March) a letter on the above subject, and we hope you will allow us space for a few remarks thereon. Whilst we admire the ideal of your correspondents, in our opinion it is beyond the realm of practical realisation. We give reasons for our opinion below :—
(t) The heatin,-'s surface of a 7h.p, n tractio engine boiler as used for threshing may be considered as varying from 120 to 130 square feet. whereas that of an ordinary steam wagon varies from so to 6o square feet. This fact alone at once puts the steam wagon " out of court." It is easy to suggest that the heating surface of the wagon should be increased to comply with the requirements of threshing work, but, as the weight of steam wagons now on the market is practically up to the legal limit, such increase in heating surface is practically impossible.
(2) 'Me ordinary motor type of engine is entirely unfit for working a threshing machine continually, and incapable of meeting the demands made upon an engine by such a machine. The average motor wagon on the market at present will develop an effective, or brake, horse-power of 12 to 14 for continual work such as threshing demands, and all advertisements by steam-wagon makers that assert their engines will develop 4o to 5o, or, in one case, 6o horse-power, are misleading ; it can only be considered as a momentary load. Were the engine to develop the load claimed, the boiler would, of course, very soon become exhausted of steam and water.
(3) has your correspondent ever had a traction engine' and a threshing machine bogged in a field? If so, he will have appreciated the fact that the source of motive power and the thresher are separate vehicles. Combine the weights of the motor wagon and threshing machine, and place it on the four small wheels of a steam wagon; then imagine the hopeless task the driver of such a combination would have in crossing, say, a farmyard of any soft piece of ground (4) Such details as risk of fire by placing a steam-wagon boiler between two stacks, an extremely short drive, and many other points, will occur to the practical man.
(5) -Cost. Reference is made by your correspondent to the cost of a traction engine (,7400 tci60o). We are not aware that 'a steam wagon can be purchased for anything less; therefore, why the remarks as to " the folly " of spending this amount of money on a traction engine? It is not our experience that traction-engine purchasers spend several hundred pounds on an engine to keep it idle the majority of the year. We think they are too wide-awake nowadays.
We are interested to know for what purpose a steam wagon can be used,
for which a traction engine is unsuitable. We maintain that a traction engine or steam tractor can accomplish all that is possible with a steam wagon, and much that a steam wagon can never do in the Agricultural branch. The traction engine has stood half a century's test, and it stands to-day unrivalled as a threshing and generalpurpose engine. The steam wagon is, at present, on its trial, and must of necessity be so for at least 20 years. To-day, there are 30-year-old traction engines doing useful work. We doubt whether the same will be said of a steam wagon after to years' work.
As traction-engine builders of very wide experience, we maintain that the traction engine, and its true descendent, the steam tractor, will never be ousted by the steam wagon, if only on the grounds of general utility and length of useful life ; and we can only advise correspondents to stick to traction engines, and their complement the steam tractor, and studiously to avoid steam wagons.
We thank you for allowing us an opportunity of expressing our opinion on this matter.—Yours truly, For WILLIAM FOSTER & CO., LTD.,
W. O. Tritton, General Manager. Wellington Foundry, Lincoln.
(Some makers and users of steam wagons will, no doubt, elect to answer Mr. Tritton.—Ed.]
The Stability of Motorbuses.
The Editor " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
Sir :--In reply to your correspondent E. J. Burt, who states that, if a motorbus is full outside and empty in, it has a tendency to be top heavy, he will if he refers to your issue when you illustrated an experiment with an empty bus (27th December, 1906) see that you then gave the angle to which a bus full outside might incline without overturning. The stability of a motorbus compared with a tram is most apparent when one compares the rocking of a tram, even on a level road, when going at any speed above 8m.p.h., with the smoothness of a motorbus going even faster.—Yours
faithfully, A. W. G. Cun.vEw. Purley, Surrey, t3th April, 1907.
[We would refer both correspondents to pages 173 and 187 Of this issue.—Ed.]
Commercial or Not Commercial?
The Editor " ME COMMERCIAL MOTOR."
Sir :—I was very pleased to read Mr.
Sturmey's article " A Dividing Line Wanteu," and 1 hope the firms wno are repeating the mistake of a few years ago, by putting van bodies on pleasure chassis, will read, mark, learn and inwardly digest the article mentioned, and, moreover, act on it. Another point is, that pneumatic tires for commercial vehicles are not wanted. They require too much attention, are always liable to puncture, in which case there is delay and possible loss of trade, and are to expensive to maintain and replace, besides which they are quite unnecessary for the speed at which trade vehicles require to be run.
One of the most business-like chassis,
and at the same time one of the most inaccessible as regards the engine, was the 19°7, 3ocwt. pattern Argyll, with engine under the seat. To take out the valves of the two rear cylinders, one would have to take off an angle-iron framing with sheet-steel bottom, sides, back and front, which is fixed with eight bolts (themselves very awkward to get at) and contains petrol tank and accumulators, thus making it necessary to undo petrol union and electrical connections. Besides this, there is the seat which is fixed with at least four bolts. Just fancy a mishap to one of the rear cylinders, miles from anywhere, on a dark, wet night ! Personally, I think I should get inside the van and sleep until daylight before attempting to get off the parts necessary to reach the offending engine.
The placing of the engine of the
" J. and B. Lacre " chassis is a step in the right direction and, moreover, it does not get the dust filtered through the joints of the footboards on to the working parts. Whilst a short wheelbase is necessary, to get this accessibility must not be sacrificed.
There seem to be very few engines fitted which run at Soo to 9oor.p.m. Surely the cost of running such an engine would be less than those running too° to t,600r.p.m., as well as having a longer life? Why cannot motor manufacturers cultivate business with the van builders ? The latter know exactly the work that van users require the vehicles for, and are more in touch with them,
but the motor firms offer the van builder only 5 per cent, or to per cent. discount. What does this mean ? The van builder orders a chassis for which
he has to pay before it is delivered, to build the body, and probably to give three or six months' credit. If he were to ask a customer to pay cash for the vehicles, he would doubtless offend the customer and probably lose the work of repairing and building the horse-drawn vans. Besides the above, if the van builder wishes to do a good business with a certain chassis, he has to keep a trial van, a man to look after same, spare parts, and to advertise it extensively. Can he do this on 5 or to per cent? I think not.—Yours truly, VAN' TRADER. London, 15th April, 1907.
'The Editor invites correspondence on all commercial motoring subjects.
Is There a Future for Motorcabs with 4-Cylinder Engines?
The Editor " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR.Sir :—With regard to Mr. Henry Suirrney•s able article " About Motorcabs " in your last issue, thereis one point in particular which attracted my attention : that is the comment about the type of vehicle which is intended to supersede the present " growler." There seems, to my mind, little chance of our having in our streets, at any rate in the immediate future, a motor " growler." Firstly, because the class of people who would use this type of machine are a most difficult class to cater for, one of the main difficulties being that, if you ply with a_ lourseated cab, you will not infrequently get the kind of individual who will .erideayour to put five or seven into it ; or, again, if you have accommodation for luggage, there is nothing to hinder the loading on of an excessive amount of parcels or trunks; and, lastly, I think, it is an acknowledged fact that the fourcylinder cab cannot be run at a profit in the British capital.
It has been, to many of us, a matter of much surprise that British manufacturers or agents should still make or attempt to supply four-cylinder cabs with enormously cumbersome or luxurious bodies with which no intelligentlyminded user could attempt to operate, and it will not be until they realise that the motorcab business is going to equal the omnibus industry, that any reasonable design will be forthcoming. There are, at present, about two British firms who make a nice little cab, in my estimation, but I do not think that they could accept larger orders than for 5o at a time, whilst, to compete successfully with the Continent, they must be prepared to deal with much greater quantities, and with reasonable rapidity too.—Yours faithfully, ARTHUR E. A. M. TURNER. Wimbledon, 13th April, 1907.
[There is much more to be said in favour of the 4-cylinder cab than our correspondent appears to think.—Ed.]
Motorbus Destination Boards.
The Editor " THE COMMERCIAL MOTOR.'
Sir :—I notice that, on page 136 of "'Inc COMMERCIAL MOTOR ' for April uth, Mr. J. Brown, F.R.S., brings before the readers of your most useful journal the very necessary requirement at the present time for much more adequate destination-boards on the motorbuses of London, and, as I live on the Hammersmith-Ilornsey Rise route, I can quite appreciate his complaint, and I think his idea of having two boards above the driver's canopy is very good; but why on earth have the names in
alphabetical order ? Surely the man from the country, who finds more difficulty in reaching his destination than others, would be more muddled if the names were alphabetical than if they were written in the same order as the places are reached ! J contend that it would take him longer than the previous way to discover whether he had the required bus or not, for, although he would find the name quickly, if he were a stranger and did not know the proper direction of the bus, he would not know whether it were coming from or going to his required destination. Another thing, he would probably muddle up the correct route : perhaps, with a chance look, while travelling from the City, he would expect to reach Holloway before King's Cross, because the former name came higher on the list. I do not know whether Mr. Brown is aware of the fact that on this particular route there are grooved slots bearing the following signs on the front and back of the top outside of one of the Bussing motors :—
Also, the Ryknield bus for this service, which was exhibited at the last show at Olympia, bears the same names.—Yours, etc., ALEC HOLLIDGE.